UnitedWeStand111 Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Damn ! Same for mechanic huh. If this waiver gets denied i'm goin Airborne RANGER 13F. I think its a 3.5 yr commitment. Friend in the 82nd said theres a 50/50 chance of being deployed in that unit. RANGER or SF would guarantee me action, would just need to seriously increase my PT. We need Operation Iranian freedom to kickoff like ASAP. That was a joke...well, sorta >: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Are you needing a moral waiver or what waiver are you trying to get passed... i forgot sry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobsyouruncle Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Quick note, in some of those shorter contracts your time starts after you complete training. That could be a year or more. The longer ones like aviation usually start when you sign the paper so the difference may be less than you think. If you do decide to enlist for the purpose of later becoming a pilot then Hawk or Chinook crew chief is probably best as you will get flight time and that will look better in the packet. Also getting the packet done is easier since you already have to do flight physicals and you know Warrant officers for recommendations and many can show you their packets (which were obviously successful). I did my packet in a month as a 58/ AH-6 CE. However many pilots come from outside of aviation and know nothing about it and make very good pilots. Also once you get picked up your old contract is gone whether you had 5 years or 5 days left. 6 months before I got picked up I reenlisted for 6 years and a 20G bonus. After getting picked up that contract was gone (I keep the bonus) and a new contact for 6 years starting after flight school starts. As a new private you will likely not be that competitive at a board but this is important- The reason most people never become pilots is that they never put a packet together. Probably 90% of people that say they want to do it- never do. So put in your packet- if they say no. Put it in again, and again. After 4-5 years in the Army if you are a decent soldier you will have a competitive resumee and have a good chance of getting picked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWeStand111 Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Are you needing a moral waiver or what waiver are you trying to get passed... i forgot sry Moral Waiver for $500 Underage Consumption of Alcohol Ticket. Could be worse, me an' my buddy were at Bar A down the shore (if you haven't been its an outdoor beach-bar, 4 acres and like 20 bars, tons of girls to get rejected by, lolz) last weekend. We get seperated and next thing I know he runs from the Cops only to get a 350$ Urinating in Public Ticket. Try explaining that one to the board ! They tried to get me too, but I "Yes Sir, No Sir, just trying to get home Sir'd" them to death. Plus I wasn't relieving myself in public. My friend, who works for Verizon Corporate, the pisser, ended up crashing on the beach. I hitchhiked back to the house and slept on the roof. Good times. Quick note, in some of those shorter contracts your time starts after you complete training. That could be a year or more. The longer ones like aviation usually start when you sign the paper so the difference may be less than you think. If you do decide to enlist for the purpose of later becoming a pilot then Hawk or Chinook crew chief is probably best as you will get flight time and that will look better in the packet. Also getting the packet done is easier since you already have to do flight physicals and you know Warrant officers for recommendations and many can show you their packets (which were obviously successful). I did my packet in a month as a 58/ AH-6 CE. However many pilots come from outside of aviation and know nothing about it and make very good pilots. Also once you get picked up your old contract is gone whether you had 5 years or 5 days left. 6 months before I got picked up I reenlisted for 6 years and a 20G bonus. After getting picked up that contract was gone (I keep the bonus) and a new contact for 6 years starting after flight school starts. As a new private you will likely not be that competitive at a board but this is important- The reason most people never become pilots is that they never put a packet together. Probably 90% of people that say they want to do it- never do. So put in your packet- if they say no. Put it in again, and again. After 4-5 years in the Army if you are a decent soldier you will have a competitive resumee and have a good chance of getting picked up. You make a great case here Sir. I'd be going in as an E-4 (Bachelors Degree). If I go that route I'm thinking 15U for more flight time and faster promotions (since everyone wants hawks?). This would help me get around this moral waiver crap I've been told, beef up my packet with LOR's, flight hours, and experience, allow me to get some Masters Degree Credits done, show committment to the Army, etc.., but also may make it harder to get picked up vs. as a NPS civilian. Hmm... I will be unsatisfied solely doing maintenance, defintely want to fly, door gun, blow chitt up, etc.. It's a roll of the dice. However, I guess If I show up to basic and crush nuts, raise my hand for 160th assessment, and bust my a$$ when I get to a unit, I should be able to make Flight Crew within a year? TGIF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcGoArmy Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Wait wait who said everyone wants 60s? Lol How's your packet coming? Last I heard your recruiter was finally willing to put it in for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWeStand111 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 MarcGoArmy - It's hear say, but I heard its harder to get promoted as a 15T vs 15U, and more flight time with 47's.. Also heard that 60's don't need you in the back, 47's do. (you fly more).. I would love it if someone could clarify this... My WOFT packet's stalled once again, waiting on Med Read for MEPS physical, then its moral waiver time (my recruiter's favorite!) to see if I get denied or approved. Upon denial I would have no choice but to enlist or try the guard-to-active route. Part of me hopes I get denied so I can just enlist. My confidence is shaken, my packet is fairly mediocre, and I feel like it should be "perfect," especially these days... I guess I'd rather spend a few years in the Army trying to apply as a crewchief/13F/etc., than working in sales/management and trying to apply. Plus I would be working towards retirement. Problem is if I dont get picked up as a 13F or 15U then I'm back where I started at age 28-30, up chitt's creek without a paddle. A roll of the dice.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWeStand111 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Some excerpts from the official WOFT thread on GoArmy.com, https://forums.goarm...t=1695&tstart=0 , Very Informative Thread for WOFT applicants... "The big thing that you have to look at is why the Army should take a chance on you given .........a past criminal history. There are literally thousands of other people out there who want to come in and be a Warrant Officer and Pilot that don't need any extra attention. This is your competition. Confidence is fine, but arrogance will get you killled. Having just come back from Afghanistan, I can speak with authority on the personality types that make it in combat. You are going to hit road-blocks. We all did and still do when it comes to getting what we want. You say you are determined; my response to that is: "we'll see how far that determination goes when you get stonewalled for any number of reasons". Go to the Warrant Officer Recruiting website, download the packet, and see where you stack up in the mix. This will give you a good indication on where you stand as far as background and qualifications are concerned. For the rest of you: help where you can. Offer quantifiable advice that can be backed up by experience, exception, or publication. "What-If'ing" a situation to death is a job for intel folks. E. WestCW2, AV" "......... In all honesty, any MOS will look good on your packet, with some perhaps garnering more respect than others (coming from a SF group or Ranger batt). When I went to WOCS, the break down was something like 1/3 street to seat, 1/3 prior enlisted (aviation MOSs) and 1/3 prior enlisted (non aviation MOSs). A Crew Chief is going to know more about how aviation units and aircraft operate but is probably just as likely to get selected as an 11B. Your LORs, test scores and the rest of your packet will play a greater role in your selection than what you did as an enlisted soldier. It all really depends on what you want to do in the Army. Do you want to be an armament guy on an Apache or would you rather be a Crew Chief and fly in a Blackhawk? Or perhaps a UAS operator? See what you qualify for and what interests you, don't base your decision off of what you think will look good to others. It is YOUR career, after all. (CW2 HEDP30M)" Edit: Wanted to break up the long post.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWeStand111 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 "Nov 18, 2011 10:21 AM (in response to SSGMarulanda) Re: Warrant Officer Flight Training - ask your questions here. The last Civlian board results are as follows, I imagine active duty would be similiar in scores: 26 packets, 24 selected. 92% Selection. GT: 131 HS Diploma only: 4GPA: 2.78 AA/AS: 3AFAST: 130 BA/BS: 16PT: 265 Masters or higher: 1 This is quality selection right here. Highly educated, and probably higly recommended; all a good benchmark to measure one's packet against. This also goes to show you that the paperwork itself is its own discriminator. Just getting the paperwork in on time and to standard greatly increases one's chances of selection. E. WestCW2, AV Edit (from a little bird who has a connection): Averages for AD pickups: Age: 26Rank: E-5 with WLC completedAFAST: 126GT: 118Education: AA/AS with 90 or more credit hous actually completed.GPA: 3.0PT: 260TIS: 6.5 yearsDeployments: at least one, with the majority being two.Average numbers of board looks: Two.Average pickup: about 65% first time select from what I am told. I wouldn't get discouraged at these numbers though. There are a metric ton of people who submit to the program every board. so 65% of, say 100 applicants per board (my numers, not theirs) is still quite promising. He did say that this info was a little dated but still a good benchmark to weigh in against. Just shoot for perfection and you'll be fine . E. WestCW2, AV" Pretty promising stuff right here, 2012 averages are in that thread somewhere as well. Maybe I shouldn't be posting all this info that may help my competition, but I feel compelled to do it to help others in my shoes. Fly my brothers (and sisters ! Make your dreams come true ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 that is a great post... if you want my feelings on everything united, i feel like that post is like it's meant to be to you. specially the second part. If I were you and I was only 50% set with going to aviation I wouldn't do it. I would enlist first. From what I have read from others posts, there is a TON of work that needs to get done and passed before you even get close to an aircraft, let alone fly one, and IN MY EYES you don't seem determined enough to get through it so i'm worried that attitude/feeling might show through in your packet or your interview causing you to not get selected and waste your time. im only a applicant myself so take what i have to offer as you may but it seems like your posts and thoughts indicate to me that you are unsure. so i think you should do some soul searching and thinking long and hard, come up with a path that you can put 200% effort into, and succeed in doing. whether that be enlisting in something YOU WANT TO DO or focusing completely on your packet. Input i've received from other soldiers have told me, if youre going to enlist, enlist in something you would have fun doing for the terms of your contract or longer. dont enlist trying to have something that will look good but you'll be miserable doing because even after enlisting there's nothing that says you are gonna get into 153a so you might even still be stuck never flying just by chance. have fun and make it a fun time for you and your family. if it pans out later, great. if not, at least youre already doing something fun and exciting to you... hope that helped some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakfishr19 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 "Nov 18, 2011 10:21 AM (in response to SSGMarulanda) Re: Warrant Officer Flight Training - ask your questions here. The last Civlian board results are as follows, I imagine active duty would be similiar in scores: 26 packets, 24 selected. 92% Selection. GT: 131 HS Diploma only: 4GPA: 2.78 AA/AS: 3AFAST: 130 BA/BS: 16PT: 265 Masters or higher: 1 This is quality selection right here. Highly educated, and probably higly recommended; all a good benchmark to measure one's packet against. This also goes to show you that the paperwork itself is its own discriminator. Just getting the paperwork in on time and to standard greatly increases one's chances of selection. E. WestCW2, AV Edit (from a little bird who has a connection): Averages for AD pickups: Age: 26Rank: E-5 with WLC completedAFAST: 126GT: 118Education: AA/AS with 90 or more credit hous actually completed.GPA: 3.0PT: 260TIS: 6.5 yearsDeployments: at least one, with the majority being two.Average numbers of board looks: Two.Average pickup: about 65% first time select from what I am told. I wouldn't get discouraged at these numbers though. There are a metric ton of people who submit to the program every board. so 65% of, say 100 applicants per board (my numers, not theirs) is still quite promising. He did say that this info was a little dated but still a good benchmark to weigh in against. Just shoot for perfection and you'll be fine . E. WestCW2, AV" Pretty promising stuff right here, 2012 averages are in that thread somewhere as well. Maybe I shouldn't be posting all this info that may help my competition, but I feel compelled to do it to help others in my shoes. Fly my brothers (and sisters ! Make your dreams come true ! Where did you get the civilian stats at? How are they possibly that good? That's great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Maybe I shouldn't be posting all this info that may help my competition, but I feel compelled to do it to help others in my shoes. Fly my brothers (and sisters ! Make your dreams come true ! i initially had that thought too but then thought, hey we are all aviators or want to be so we have to help each other out in these tough times. it'll only help with confidence. its not like posting facts or helping someone out with what to expect on a test will get them a higher score or a stronger packet. your packet is what you are at your best or very close. there's not much more to be done to it that can be influenced by others unless you lie on it somewhere which i highly discourage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 24 selected? sh*t, went I boarded they selected 11 or 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWeStand111 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Let me just say that I was also shocked when I saw the 92% selection rate, and this was only one board out of many for FY11. On the same thread a CW posts board results with a 30-40% selection rate, with the 2011 average being ~69% (According to CW5 Reese). It seems much of getting FQ-S vs FQ-NS is pure TIMING, which eats at someone like me who may not feel competitive enough to submit. Moral of the story, submit the packet and hope for the best. Another CW said "........and don't pass up what can possibly be two free looks as a civilian. You can always enlist later and try again, but at least you won't be wondering "what if I had submitted as a civilian." BTW, the thread on GoArmy is ~150 pages, took me like 4-5 days to get through it all, but definitely worth the read if you're applying for 153A. EDIT: DHill(Purdue) - I have no idea where they got the civilian board results from, someone knows someone that sits on the board I guess. EDIT: 65% is awesome for In-service applicants as well. Someone like me who has a Bachelors, competitive test scores, some flight time, Class 1a done, and working towards a Masters may even have, dare I say, a better chance of getting selected applying in the Army vs as a Civilian based on how my packet stacks up against the competition. Purely speculation, but maybe an Army Warrant Officer can clarify.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWeStand111 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I'm skimming the GoArmy thread and reposting things that stuck out here, I hope no one minds, if so ill stop.. "I wanted to toss this out there for "stats" purposes. This post was originally put up by Zaurus. He and I have talked over a couple of boards, and his information is certainly credible. On 29 Feb 12, I attended a WOCS graduating class at Ft Rucker. I asked a graduate several questions pertaining to WOFT students. Here were some of the answers. Out of 39 flight students, 33 had college degrees. And less than 50% had any flight time. Last year there was a selection rate of 69% for civilians but a 4 year degree had a lot of weight. The active duty Army has between 350-450 WOFT slots yeariy and half are alotted to enlisted soldiers. You play the numbers. Averaging 4 slots annually per state for civilians. How many in your state want to fly in the pilot seat of an Army helicopter? So, it would appear to me that one of the biggest factors is that college degree AND, if you have it, how well you did in school. For instance, were you an average student who scraped by, or were you a Dean's list and Honor Roll stud? If you were an average student, then what are you going to do to set aside that low GPA in your packet? Answer: Test scores and LOR's. That obviously begs the question, what test score carry the most weight? In my opinion, it's the AFAST. The GT score just gets your qualified for entry. That 110 on the GT is the total of the VE + AR Line scores. You should have a copy of your line scores handy in case they are lost. Be sure you ask your recruiter for a copy when the ASVAB is graded. The AFAST is used as the predictor of your success in school. It does not measure your ability to fly currently. It measures your ability to be taught to fly. So, as the theory is, the higher your score, the greater theoretical chance of your success. That being said, if you are already a pilot, your score should theoretically and logically be higher. I don't care what your recruiter says, put a resume' in your packet just like you were applying for a high-profile dream job. A good solid summary of your work and educational history can never hurt. The sample packet even gives you a format for it! If you can't fill out all the blocks on it, fine. Do what you can and submit it. This leads me to the all important discussion on flight time. Is flight time required? NO. However, if you have never flown a smaller aircraft before then you should go up a couple of times in either a Cessna 172 or a Schweizer 300 (my personal recommendation is before the AFAST) to see how you feel and how you fare in different weather and wind conditions since, if selected, you will be flying in all types of weather conditions. In aviation terms, we call that a "dynamic meteorological environment". I think it would be good to know if you get airsick in the cockpit and what to do about it prior to going to flight school rather than find it out the first time you pull pitch in the TH-67 at Cairns AAF, throw up, and we all hear about it and ridicule you mercilessly . If you decide to get some flight time, try to find some coupons online first. My school that I teach at has run specials on groupon and amazon. Bring a sample copy of the AFAST with you. Tell your Flight Instructor what you are planning on doing and ask for some help on the instrumentation portions, etc., or whatever you are struggling with. Keep in mind, however, that most fixed wind CFI's know nothing about helicopters but anyone should be able to help you on the generic compass and instrument orientation, sight pictures, etc. WARNING!! SHAMELESS PLUG FOLLOWS: If you are in the Seattle area, look at my profile for my email and get in touch with me and we can go up a few times. Again, all of this is my opinion. But, I haven't gone as far in aviation as I have by being dumb! Congrats again to all selected. If I have left anything out, please put it out there. If you are just starting and are serious about it, then we are all here to help. Welcome to the journey. It all begins with the first step! E. WestCW2, AV" "Make a copy of the below article and let your recruiter see the selection rate for WOFT. They will be surprised but more than likely will care even less. You appear to be a great candidate for the WOFT program.http://www.quad-a.or...ese_1211p12.pdfSince your goal is being an Army aviator, you should review the below articles on the career development of the Army Warrant Officer aviator and see what is expected of you in your career.http://www.quad-a.or.../Reese_0312.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...eMar2011p14.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...eFeb2011p10.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...seAA1011p14.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...seAA1010p10.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...daprilmay09.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...010Reichard.pdfGood Luck in going Army Strong again." This may be counterproductive to getting my own questions answered, but o well...This info can help a lot of aspiring 153A's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWeStand111 Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 "Matt, What you are experiencing is a typical recruiter tactic. One of the things you have to understand about recruiters is that they receive good training on how to sell an ENLISTMENT to the masses. I seriously doubt that the recruiting school house offers more than a familiarization block of instruction on Officer and Warrant Officer recruiting. I have heard of recruiters employing this tactic on the literally hundreds of people that I have conversed with. The general idea that I got from casually talking with recruiters is that they fall into one of two categories with very few exceptions: they are a little clueless when it comes to process or they are being lazy. Normally, its the latter. It simply is easier and faster to put you into an enlistment contract than it is as an Officer. Officer recruiting, especially pilots, requires boards, extra tests, a longer physical, etc. etc. In a word, it takes much more "time" to put you in. However, a GOOD recruiter will recognize potential, do the research on where to start, and help you achieve you initial Army career goals. Plus, you are going to them and essentially making their lives a little easier since they don't have to prospect to come and find a potential recruit. In my opinion, the least they could do is work with you to put your packet together. On to the actual question. The vast majority of WO's come from the enlisted ranks. I would venture to say that in the pilot world, 95% of the current pilots had/have at least one good enlistment (4 + years) under their belt prior to becoming Warrant Officers and Pilots. However, with the recent upward trend in civilians getting accepted as the years march on that 95% will get lower and lower as more people coming in off-the-street are moving to operational units. However, I would still venture to say that in the next 5 years, while that 95% will be smaller, the overall percentage will only drop by 1 or 2% max and I think that is as far as it will go. I would never tell someone not to get some enlisted experience before applying. However as of right now in your situation, if you qualify for the program, why put in extra time that you don't need to when you could have spent those extra years as an enlisted solider in flight school and as an operational pilot? Enlisted experience will give you a good foundation on which to further build and expand upon as a professional officer and pilot. The training program here is, in my opinion, the best of the 4 services and focuses equally on making one an excellent officer and an even better technical expert and aviator. But, like I said, as things currently stand, you don't need the enlisted experience to apply. Being a mechanic will give you some good exposure to the AV environment. However, as I am in flight school with multiple former mechanics and crew-chiefs right now, none of them said that it helped their chances of acceptance any more than the former Infantry guys, MP's (and branch transfers) like I was, or the Intel cats who decided to come and play real-army for a while. I think you get the idea. Tell your recruiter that you are grateful for his time but want to pursue the WOFT program first. If you don't get picked up, then I would discuss enlisting with him. On a more personal note, the Army isn't here to "make your dreams come true." If that is what you are looking for, buy a plane ticket to Disney Land. So get the whole "it has been a dream of mine to fly" garbage out of your head. You obviously think that you are qualified to come and join the best **** group of aviators in the Army so now it is time to show it. The competition is steep.....REAL STEEP. Make sure you can go up against some over-qualified people that are gunning for your slot. Now is where the gut check starts. What are you going to do about it? Go get 'em.... E. WestWO1, AV" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobsyouruncle Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 MarcGoArmy - It's hear say, but I heard its harder to get promoted as a 15T vs 15U, and more flight time with 47's.. Also heard that 60's don't need you in the back, 47's do. (you fly more).. I would love it if someone could clarify this... My WOFT packet's stalled once again, waiting on Med Read for MEPS physical, then its moral waiver time (my recruiter's favorite!) to see if I get denied or approved. Upon denial I would have no choice but to enlist or try the guard-to-active route. Part of me hopes I get denied so I can just enlist. My confidence is shaken, my packet is fairly mediocre, and I feel like it should be "perfect," especially these days... I guess I'd rather spend a few years in the Army trying to apply as a crewchief/13F/etc., than working in sales/management and trying to apply. Plus I would be working towards retirement. Problem is if I dont get picked up as a 13F or 15U then I'm back where I started at age 28-30, up chitt's creek without a paddle. A roll of the dice.. The ease of promotion can be seen by where promotion points are at. Right now both MOS' are fairly low for promotion to E-5 with points around 500 which is fairly easily attainable. At E-6 thay are higher. When they get up around 700 it is difficult to be promoted, they will sometimes go to 798 if the Army decides they have enough NCO's one month and don't want to promote anybody. It is possible to have 800 promotion points but that is very difficult to do. I'm not going to get into all the things that make promotion points but it's important to realize these things go up and down and there is no real good way of predicting them. They tend to come in waves, very difficult to get promoted one year, the next year anybody with a heartbeat can make points. Might as well just pick what you like and let the chips fall. Plenty of people get picked up as E-4's also. Youth is a consideration. The 60 requires two CE's on missions in combat or for Med 1 CE and one Medic. In Garrison it's up to the unit but many will only require one but still usually fly with two. I'm not sure about a 47, I think it's the same. You may get more flight time in a 47, but I wouldn't say that should be a huge factor. If you get put in a general support unit you could go to Afghanistan and run supply ring routes logging 6 or 7 hours a day. It is mind numbing work. You are probably more likely to get that job as a 47 guy because thay are the better aircraft for cargo. However 60's can also do it. If you go to assault (either aircraft), Medevac (60's only), you will likely get less time but the quality is something you can annotate on a resumee. I.E.- "flew 970 hours in Combat in support of TF whoever" vs "Flew 402 hours in combat, performing 76 assault missions, or performing 600 Medevac mission for 812 patients". Either blurb is good despite one having half the hours. In Hawks you could also get VIP which is not deplorable. If you want to avoid this you should be able to since many people want these assignments, however, you never know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobsyouruncle Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I'm skimming the GoArmy thread and reposting things that stuck out here, I hope no one minds, if so ill stop.. "I wanted to toss this out there for "stats" purposes. This post was originally put up by Zaurus. He and I have talked over a couple of boards, and his information is certainly credible. On 29 Feb 12, I attended a WOCS graduating class at Ft Rucker. I asked a graduate several questions pertaining to WOFT students. Here were some of the answers. Out of 39 flight students, 33 had college degrees. And less than 50% had any flight time. Last year there was a selection rate of 69% for civilians but a 4 year degree had a lot of weight. The active duty Army has between 350-450 WOFT slots yeariy and half are alotted to enlisted soldiers. You play the numbers. Averaging 4 slots annually per state for civilians. How many in your state want to fly in the pilot seat of an Army helicopter? So, it would appear to me that one of the biggest factors is that college degree AND, if you have it, how well you did in school. For instance, were you an average student who scraped by, or were you a Dean's list and Honor Roll stud? If you were an average student, then what are you going to do to set aside that low GPA in your packet? Answer: Test scores and LOR's. That obviously begs the question, what test score carry the most weight? In my opinion, it's the AFAST. The GT score just gets your qualified for entry. That 110 on the GT is the total of the VE + AR Line scores. You should have a copy of your line scores handy in case they are lost. Be sure you ask your recruiter for a copy when the ASVAB is graded. The AFAST is used as the predictor of your success in school. It does not measure your ability to fly currently. It measures your ability to be taught to fly. So, as the theory is, the higher your score, the greater theoretical chance of your success. That being said, if you are already a pilot, your score should theoretically and logically be higher. I don't care what your recruiter says, put a resume' in your packet just like you were applying for a high-profile dream job. A good solid summary of your work and educational history can never hurt. The sample packet even gives you a format for it! If you can't fill out all the blocks on it, fine. Do what you can and submit it. This leads me to the all important discussion on flight time. Is flight time required? NO. However, if you have never flown a smaller aircraft before then you should go up a couple of times in either a Cessna 172 or a Schweizer 300 (my personal recommendation is before the AFAST) to see how you feel and how you fare in different weather and wind conditions since, if selected, you will be flying in all types of weather conditions. In aviation terms, we call that a "dynamic meteorological environment". I think it would be good to know if you get airsick in the cockpit and what to do about it prior to going to flight school rather than find it out the first time you pull pitch in the TH-67 at Cairns AAF, throw up, and we all hear about it and ridicule you mercilessly . If you decide to get some flight time, try to find some coupons online first. My school that I teach at has run specials on groupon and amazon. Bring a sample copy of the AFAST with you. Tell your Flight Instructor what you are planning on doing and ask for some help on the instrumentation portions, etc., or whatever you are struggling with. Keep in mind, however, that most fixed wind CFI's know nothing about helicopters but anyone should be able to help you on the generic compass and instrument orientation, sight pictures, etc. WARNING!! SHAMELESS PLUG FOLLOWS: If you are in the Seattle area, look at my profile for my email and get in touch with me and we can go up a few times. Again, all of this is my opinion. But, I haven't gone as far in aviation as I have by being dumb! Congrats again to all selected. If I have left anything out, please put it out there. If you are just starting and are serious about it, then we are all here to help. Welcome to the journey. It all begins with the first step! E. WestCW2, AV" "Make a copy of the below article and let your recruiter see the selection rate for WOFT. They will be surprised but more than likely will care even less. You appear to be a great candidate for the WOFT program.http://www.quad-a.or...ese_1211p12.pdfSince your goal is being an Army aviator, you should review the below articles on the career development of the Army Warrant Officer aviator and see what is expected of you in your career.http://www.quad-a.or.../Reese_0312.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...eMar2011p14.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...eFeb2011p10.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...seAA1011p14.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...seAA1010p10.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...daprilmay09.pdfhttp://www.quad-a.or...010Reichard.pdfGood Luck in going Army Strong again." This may be counterproductive to getting my own questions answered, but o well...This info can help a lot of aspiring 153A's... Just one thing, I would say that the number of civilian WO pickups is nowhere near half. 10% would seem more realistic. We have 30 WO's in my company and 3 were civilian pickups. Two had degrees and one had a PPL in helicopters. If you get picked up as a civilian you are probably outstanding ( at least on paper) and should be proud, but make no mistake it is more difficult for you guys than the guys already in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloidaho Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 There is a lot of over thinking going on around here. It really is this simple: people get selected for flight school every year with a variety of backgrounds, and YOU WILL NEVER KNOW if you will get selected unless you try. Once you decide to try, just put in the best effort you can. And once you decide to try, just keep improving yourself with education and PT scores, etc. Those are good things to do even if you don't get selected. This same logic follows for picking a military career. Don't pick it off of flight hours or promotion rates or how it would look for a future flight school packet. Someone has to get flight hours and a promotion in any career. Why not just work hard and be that person that gets promoted? Pick the mission you want to perform if you enlist. I'd rather be a Specialist who loved going to work every morning than a Staff Sergeant that can't wait for the day to end so they can leave. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 92%?! Mother of God...what am I doing? My fingers are tingling with excitement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherdubya Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 lindsey, even if the selction rate was 5%, im sure you would get selected with your stats. i just pray we are not on the same board. jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 lindsey,even if the selction rate was 5%, im sure you would get selected with your stats. i just pray we are not on the same board. jk Don't jinx me! Besides, you're forgetting about that other stat...the APFT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakfishr19 Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 How bad you want it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 How bad you want it? Better ask yourself that question, Purdue, because I know precisely how bad I want it. And so does everyone that knows me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherdubya Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Pt can always be improved on. How are your waivers coming for your reach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Pt can always be improved on. How are your waivers coming for your reach?OOOOOOO BURN!!! Sorry i couldnt resist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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