nightsta1ker Posted August 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Not all sarcasm, some cynicism, some absurdity, some comedy, and some levity, at least I hope so. When it's time for seriousness, sometimes a "spoon full of sugar" is in order. All of that can be easily missed when it's in written form. I can generally tell when someone is being serious or not, but sometimes it's hard, and I think we all have a tendency to project our feelings at the time we are reading something and that shapes how we perceive it. I guess my ultimate point is, don't be calling people sourpusses when they might have very well thought you were being one too. Edited August 25, 2012 by nightsta1ker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 All of that can be easily missed when it's in written form. I can generally tell when someone is being serious or not, but sometimes it's hard, and I think we all have a tendency to project our feelings at the time we are reading something and that shapes how we perceive it. I guess my ultimate point is, don't be calling people sourpusses when they might have very well thought you were being one too. It wouldn't be the worst thing I was ever accused of being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsta1ker Posted August 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 It wouldn't be the worst thing I was ever accused of being. Not surprising... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Just to reiterate what Spike said earlier. Its not about the numbers at most places. My second last job was in a 44 doing some external load and spraying. I had no 44 time and no external load experience. I got the job because they liked me, someone recommended me for it and I fit the bill. They had resumes from plenty of people with tons of 44 time. I was short on time for their insurance but not by much. They covered 50 hours in the 44 for me at no cost to get up to insurance specs. My last job, I also had a recommendation. I walked straight into a turbine gig with no turbine time. They didn't even question my time or check my logbook. They looked at my resume, we went for a flight and I was good to go. It's mostly about the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Just to reiterate what Spike said earlier. Its not about the numbers at most places. My second last job was in a 44 doing some external load and spraying. I had no 44 time and no external load experience. I got the job because they liked me, someone recommended me for it and I fit the bill. They had resumes from plenty of people with tons of 44 time. I was short on time for their insurance but not by much. They covered 50 hours in the 44 for me at no cost to get up to insurance specs.My last job, I also had a recommendation. I walked straight into a turbine gig with no turbine time. They didn't even question my time or check my logbook. They looked at my resume, we went for a flight and I was good to go. It's mostly about the individual. ...or who the individual knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Just to reiterate what Spike said earlier. Its not about the numbers at most places. My second last job was in a 44 doing some external load and spraying. I had no 44 time and no external load experience. I got the job because they liked me, someone recommended me for it and I fit the bill. They had resumes from plenty of people with tons of 44 time. I was short on time for their insurance but not by much. They covered 50 hours in the 44 for me at no cost to get up to insurance specs.My last job, I also had a recommendation. I walked straight into a turbine gig with no turbine time. They didn't even question my time or check my logbook. They looked at my resume, we went for a flight and I was good to go. It's mostly about the individual. Don't take this the wrong way, but I really hate stories like yours! They hired you with no time in type or specific job experience over others that did simply due to who you know! They even trained you in an R44 FOR FREE, to meet their insurance, who does that? This makes me think that it doesn't matter how hard I work, how dedicated I am, how much I persevere, How many resumes I hand deliver, how much experience I have, how many hours I have, what I've flown, or the type of flying I've done! ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHO I KNOW! This thread has it all wrong! Its not the logbook that needs fudging, its the resume, under "references"! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Don't take this the wrong way, but I really hate stories like yours! ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHO I KNOW! Welcome to the human race. Not always, but its how the world has worked for, oh..... I dunno..... 5000 years-1million years depending on whether you believe creation or evolution If that makes you mad....My story would seriously drive you to drinkin! Edited August 26, 2012 by Flying Pig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsta1ker Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 If that makes you mad....My story would seriously drive you to drinkin! It already has. Now if you will excuse me, I have a meeting I need to get to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Don't take this the wrong way, but I really hate stories like yours! ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHO I KNOW! It's not ALL that matters but it is one of the most significant things that you can have going for you. It wasn't the only reason I got that job either. The first thing I wrote is that they liked me. You can have all the hours and quals in the world but if you're a complete tool it won't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 eagle5 said maybe it's the resume that needs to be fudged. I see the reasoning behind this. I also see a humorous aspect, and the frustration. Generally speaking it's the low to middle time pilots who fall prey to fudging (the logbook). The problem with this thread is, no one can come up with a definition of fudging that everyone will agree with. There are some falsely labelled fudging situations that actually fall completely within the FAA definition of flight time, but some will strenuously insist out of envy or i don't know what, that it's the dishonest brand of fudging. Then they will go off on a rant accusing everyone and their brother of being dishonest, and unable to be trusted, and future killers of the occupants in the aircraft they fly, and maybe as a rant bonus, some on the ground.I flew over a county fair today, there was a booth there that made and sold homemade fudge, guess what happened next ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethisbike Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 I flew over a county fair today, there was a booth there that made and sold homemade fudge, guess what happened next ? Oh dear lord... don't tell me you got fudge in your logbook!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomer Pylot Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) It's not unique to aviation - in any vocation, anywhere, who you know has more to do with getting a job than anything else. In many places in the US, the color of your skin may have more to do with it than anything, but in general, it's who you know that counts. The importance of that is inversely proportional to the size of the industry. Since aviation is relatively small, it's relatively high in importance. Your reputation will get around rather quickly, and if you screw up at one place, your chances of getting a job at another place are greatly reduced. Not zero, but reduced. To get hired, you need to know someone, or know someone who knows someone who knows someone, etc. It works that way in every industry, and always will. Deal with it. Edited August 27, 2012 by Gomer Pylot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsta1ker Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 To clear things up. I think the minute details of .1s and .2s is rather rediculous to argue about. I was concerned with pilots that magically go from 500 hours to 2500 hours in less than a year, and then land a coveted turbine job. I don't think anyone can argue, that is blatant falsification, and at some point they would need to apply for an ATP rating in there, so that's falsification of records for the purposes of acquiring a rating and the FAA would have a FIELD day with that if they found out. This thread has gotten out of hand. There has been a lot of good posts amid the bitter back and forth about whether adding a tenth for runup/shutdown is immoral/illegal. I could care less. If you put an extra thousand hours in your logbook to get a job your a POS, IMHO. Cheers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Oh dear lord... don't tell me you got fudge in your logbook!! My logbook fell out of my helicopter, right into a cauldron sized kettle of FUDGE. Talk about fudging the logbook... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsta1ker Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 My logbook fell out of my helicopter, right into a cauldron sized kettle of FUDGE. Talk about fudging the logbook... Sounds like you're completely fudged! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Do what you feel is ethical, go home, have a beer and sleep well at night or in the early morning or middle of the day. If I miss a job opportunity because of being 100 hours short well then I was 100 hours short so I'll stick it out at my current job until I make the next hiring company's minimums. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helipilot PTK Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 A different sort of situation, but shares the general point. When I started my WOFT packet, my brother was the only person in the military I knew. If I wanted to be competitive for the WOFT program with my stats, I figured I would need a LOR from a high ranking Warrant Officer. Well it just so happened that my brother went to SERE training a few months after I started my packet, and met a CW5 while in training. I told my brother about my situation, he made a few calls, and got me a number to call to get in contact with the CW5. I was able to have a personal interview with him, and ended up getting a VERY strong recommendation letter from him. (I was told that every person he wrote a LOR from has gotten accepted, I guess we will find out if that is true). The point is, YOU have to put in the effort to MAKE contacts. You don't just magically make contacts (except for family etc). If you are not socially awkward around people this should not be a problem. I am not a employed helicopter pilot (only PPL), this is just my experiences/opinions, and has worked for me in other employment opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsemperfi Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 My two cents. Logbook fudgers should be shot, hung, castrated, eviscerated, and mauled by a bear. It makes me sick thinking about pilots doing this when the rest of us are honest and work hard for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 I've been meaning to clean the fudge off my logbook since this past Sunday's incident. Now I have even more motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafiddle Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Logbook fudgers should be shot, hung, castrated, eviscerated, and mauled by a bear. Come on, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred0311 Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) I'm of the attitude do what your ok with. If you want to get a job beyond your abilities you'll pay for it. I personally am fine with waiting my turn to get a job. I accepted a long time ago life is unfair and that I'll have to compete with cheaters in every aspect of life so I'll just have to be that much better than them. Whether its someone who's family runs an ag buisness (not that that's cheating) or someone who pencil whipped 500 hours people will beat me to a job but I know hard work and determination will take me where I need to be. And unless their recommendation is going to get me a job the progress of others is irrelevant to me. Im comfortable logging my actual time so that's what I'll do. To each their own. Edited August 29, 2012 by Fred0311 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 My two cents. Logbook fudgers should be shot, hung, castrated, eviscerated, and mauled by a bear. It makes me sick thinking about pilots doing this when the rest of us are honest and work hard for it. Bleeding heart liberal. Hanging, drawing, including emasculating, and quartering were traditionally good enough for jolly old England! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Almost up to 200 posts! Is this thread the Energizer Bunny, or Jason Vorhees?,...either way, it just won't die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Almost up to 200 posts! Is this thread the Energizer Bunny, or Jason Vorhees?,...either way, it just won't die! You were 198, I'm 199. Any volunteers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsta1ker Posted August 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Do I get another "like" for being 200? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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