Fort Rucker Flying Hour Reduction/Layoffs

FLYC2A · October 28, 2013

Here's some information concerning AFS (Army Fleet Support), which in basic terms refers to the civilians that support flying activities at Fort Rucker - fueling, maintenance, etc.

Between 250-300 AFS workers (of the current ~3000 person workforce or 10%) are expecting their layoff notices the day before Christmas exodus. Why? Because the fiscal year 2014 budget is expected to reduce the Fort Rucker flying hours from the planned 250,000 hours to right at 200,000.

That is a 20% reduction in flying hours at Fort Rucker alone, in just one fiscal year.

Take it for what it is worth. I'm not trying to draw any conclusions from the info but I'm sure you can.

Here's a couple of links to the applicable sources, released yesterday:

http://www.dothaneagle.com/news/article_d33b445e-3de0-11e3-a6a7-001a4bcf6878.html

http://www.iam2003.org/layoff-information/

Could it be possible that they are doing more SIM time vs actual flight time in advanced training after IERW??? Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but I thought I would ask because you are actually there at FT RUCKER and you can make a fair assessment of that.

I'm dying to get in, and I really think the fact that I don't have a bachelors(88 credits engineering & prior Navy Crew Chief) will hurt me but either way, i'm going to turn in the best packet possible and hope for the best!

smalltownguy · October 28, 2013

Could it be possible that they are doing more SIM time vs actual flight time in advanced training after IERW??? ...

I believe what everyone is saying is that they are reducing flight hours by reducing students and not by reducing each individual students flight time, just the number of students getting those hours. Now I'm sure they may look at cutting the length of the program to and try making it more "efficient" so you could be on to something there. We'll just have to see what the pros think and what actually happens when we make it (yes, the making it part was optimism! See... it is possible to use optimism on an aviation forum).

Do your best, don't give up... no matter what you read just keep after it and see where the chips fall once you get in. My .02

Velocity173 · October 28, 2013

Cutting program hours is nothing new. Since the inception of FSXXI in 2001 flight hours & training events have been steadily cut. They're trying to get more use out of the gazillion dollar Warrior Hall simulator. As we used to say, FSXXI became nothing more than an AQC with more hours. It was a great idea that just didn't stick with the principles it was based on.

urs151 · October 28, 2013

In response to FLYC2A from the previous page. There was a meeting last week with the Director of Primary, the HR guys from URS and the primary IPs who are getting laid off. They told us about the class size reduction based on the white book. They also said that a total of 90+ IPs will be laid off from URS and the first 38 will be from Primary Division coming up in the next two months. I was at the meeting and my lay off date is coming up soon

Justine · October 28, 2013

Please, don't take this the wrong way.....but how would they know??

You think my old CO or XO would know that information?

This came from ARNG HQ

Maybe they finally cleared up the 'BACKLOG' ......who knows

From my understanding we are going back to backlog....

UH60L-IP · October 28, 2013

Could it be possible that they are doing more SIM time vs actual flight time in advanced training after IERW??? Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but I thought I would ask because you are actually there at FT RUCKER and you can make a fair assessment of that.

I'm dying to get in, and I really think the fact that I don't have a bachelors(88 credits engineering & prior Navy Crew Chief) will hurt me but either way, i'm going to turn in the best packet possible and hope for the best!

Wishful thinking on your part is a nightmare on mine. I don't ever hear IPs say, "Man, I wish we could do some more sim time." Actually, sim is not that bad but there really is only so much you can do before you're just burning time in there.

In all seriousness, they have already cut things over the years like sling loads, student led missions, a lot of tactics, etc. I guess there's always something more they can cut but the end product will ultimately suffer.

While not outside the realm of possibilities, I haven't been privy to any talk about reducing hours for individual students or for course requirements though flight training guides do change more often than some people change underwear.

The truth is that any reduction in hours is likely going to be accompanied by a reduction in instructors, students, and support - that is my somewhat educated opinion.

Velocity173 · October 28, 2013

Wishful thinking on your part is a nightmare on mine. I don't ever hear IPs say, "Man, I wish we could do some more sim time." Actually, sim is not that bad but there really is only so much you can do before you're just burning time in there.

In all seriousness, they have already cut things over the years like sling loads, student led missions, a lot of tactics, etc. I guess there's always something more they can cut but the end product will ultimately suffer.

While not outside the realm of possibilities, I haven't been privy to any talk about reducing hours for individual students or for course requirements though flight training guides do change more often than some people change underwear.

The truth is that any reduction in hours is likely going to be accompanied by a reduction in instructors, students, and support - that is my somewhat educated opinion.

What?? Sim day was great. 3 hours of work and then you're done for the day.

I was there when the sling snapped. At first they were going to try and pin it on the IP then a bunch of us raised hell. Got swept under the rug.

UH60L-IP · October 28, 2013

What?? Sim day was great. 3 hours of work and then you're done for the day.

That part is hard to argue with. Though a few hours straight of sim for a few days in a row tends to be headache inducing.

Velocity173 · October 28, 2013

That part is hard to argue with. Though a few hours straight of sim for a few days in a row tends to be headache inducing.

Wow, they must have seriously stepped up sim time in recent years. I never did more than two days per month. Double period will drive you nuts though.

t.o.n.y · October 29, 2013

An instrument IP friend got notice he's getting laid off early next year. Said nearly a third are.

The airframe training/flight time breakdown handout they give at B Co and during BOLC shows a slight reduction in hours for the 64 course in FY 2014. Forgot how much

Yamer · October 29, 2013

eek

Joe_P148 · October 30, 2013

You guys are anslyzing this way to much. Besides, it's not like any of us have control over it anyways.

If we spent as much time trying to analyze these figures as we did studying or doing something constructive we would be geniuses. My 2 cents

If you haven't made it through wocs or even gotten picked up yet, worry about that first.

BM1 · October 31, 2013

I could not care less, looks like I will not be able to finish my packet due to PRK dwell time around march at the earliest. All this means to me is I'm running an extra 2 miles tonight. Pressure is the best motivator I've ever found.

nightmare515 · November 3, 2013

How did you find out about this?

My IP said the same thing. Don't know where they are getting their info from but it must be somewhat solid because quite a few primary and instrument IPs are currently looking for other gigs.