Life after WOFT

Jhanner1 · June 11, 2014

Hello everyone ive been lurking around the forums for a few months now and have read tons of great info on the entire WOFT process. The one question that hasnt been asked very often is how many of you active guys, (either in flight school or with a few years in service) are happy with your choice to fly for the Army? I see tons of gung ho and excited applicants on here, including myself. Are you overall happy with your decision, are the benefits worth the struggle? I have my fixed wing ppl and multi and love everything about aviation, but i also work for a very large defense contractor and work closely with soldiers on a daily basis. Many that i work with seem very dissatisfied with the Army especially in midst of the current drawdown and severe budget cuts. Would like to here from some of you that have been in for a while, are you happy with your career? pros? cons? Just trying to make the best and most educated decision for myself and my family.

akscott60 · June 11, 2014

Would like to here from some of you that have been in for a while, are you happy with your career? pros? cons? Just trying to make the best and most educated decision for myself and my family.

Happy? Mixed

Pros: I fly a state of the art helicopter than can do sh*t that makes most helicopter pilots blush. I fly quite a bit at my current unit. Leadership will make you break the company.

Cons? I am in Korea, and my wife is in TN. The additional duties you will get suck. Not flying for long periods of time sucks.

You get one chance at a life. Do what makes you happy.

zVo · June 11, 2014

The best, well-kept secret: Army National Guard.
You fly as much (and often times more if your schedule can take it) as your active duty brethren, you get compensated well for the minimum time you put it (depending on rank, time in service, flight training periods, etc.), a lot of guys with a few years experience bring in $14k-$16k on an average year. There's full-time opportunities if you're qualified that get you the same active duty benefits and retirement "points"; there's also something called technician jobs... Google it. Many Guard pilots are afforded opportunities to be qualified in multiple airframes. Friend of mine is qualified in the UH-60A/L/M, CH-47D, UH-72, C-23, and C-12V. He flies for the airlines as his full-time job... told me he might have an AGR job lined up flying UC-35s out of KDFW.

My advice is that if you "love flying" and that's what you want to do the most, keep your day job and go Guard. Every now and then they offer up active duty transitions to Guard and Reserve pilots if you end up really wanting it (permanent and temporary). Of course there are cons to the ARNG. There's a lot of experiences you will miss out on if you aren't active duty (good and bad). But give it serious consideration. If you have friends or family in the military that don't blow smoke, talk with them ... if you think you'd love the lifestyle, go active. They pay and benefits are solid. I've seen too many people come in and say "Did you think it was really gonna be like this when you joined?" Know what you're getting into.

All that being said, I am currently active duty and love it. You have to manage your expectations though... I see a lot of guys all hyped up to go through WOFT and have this almost romanticized notion of flying military aircraft. It's great, but there's a huge part of the military they're overlooking; your aviation duties -- for most pilots -- take up a small percentage of your time. I'm getting deployed soon and the assumption is that I'm going to fly my butt off, but with deployments going away within the next year, anyone who joins now can a anticipate a garrison environment (someone else can elaborate on this.... hahaha) unless we enter another major conflict.

Edited June 11, 2014 by zVo

I3uller · June 11, 2014

I left the Army pretty dissatisfied as an E-5 scout in 2009 and made a big gamble to come back in through the WOFT program. I'm towards the back end of BOLC currently, and even though I haven't touched a helicopter yet I already feel like I made the right choice. But that's just me.

Jhanner1 · June 11, 2014

Thanks for all the input, considering the future outlook at my current job AD is the way I want to go. Budget cuts affect us contractors pretty severely and I'm looking at my second layoff in 2 years. I may be misinformed but doesn't the guard only accept enlisted applicants for woft? I've given serious consideration to the guard I just could really use the full time benefits of AD. I don't have any close friends in the military but I'm very close to ft. Rucker itself, 2 hr drive or 30 min flight to cairns so that might be an option for some insight. Woft has been my goal for the past few years I just want to be as educated as possible when I sign the dotted line for 8 yrs of service.

Joe_P148 · June 11, 2014

I'll tell you what, you find a soldier that isn't bitching about something and you've got yourself a first.

You need to filter through what is bitching and what is an actual gripe. Most guys I know in aviation are miserable 80% of the time but if you asked them if they'd get out they'd laugh in your face.

The active Army Is good, but it has it's ups and downs. Everything is a series of gives and takes and if you ask anyone if they are doing all the cool stuff on the recruiting poster 100% of the time they'd say no, regardless, of the job. For every 1 day of cool stuff in aviation you've got a bunch more of planning and studying and additional duties and paperwork

Pros: free helicopter training, steady job, serving your country, builds invaluable experience, work with great people.

Cons: away from home, pay cuts, job security, possible lack of flight hours, dealing with army BS.

Honestly, no one on this forum can convince you on what you need to do. This is your choice.

Ardo09203 · June 11, 2014

Thanks for all the input, considering the future outlook at my current job AD is the way I want to go. Budget cuts affect us contractors pretty severely and I'm looking at my second layoff in 2 years. I may be misinformed but doesn't the guard only accept enlisted applicants for woft? I've given serious consideration to the guard I just could really use the full time benefits of AD. I don't have any close friends in the military but I'm very close to ft. Rucker itself, 2 hr drive or 30 min flight to cairns so that might be an option for some insight. Woft has been my goal for the past few years I just want to be as educated as possible when I sign the dotted line for 8 yrs of service.

Depends on the state, I had to enlist before I was able to submit a WOFT packet here in LA. But I know some applicants that were able to go street to seat in other states.

apacheguy · June 11, 2014

Well said, Joe_P148. Army aviation is worth the effort, some end up getting more out of the army than others but for most it's a win-win. The time to get out is when the bullshit becomes too much to handle. I just had to write a memorandum to the company commander explaining that I have no tattoos to document. True story.

Good news is that there are dozens of cool civilian jobs that won't require me to go live in the crotch of the middle east for years on end, and those that do pay really well.

I tried National Guard aviation for awhile but found that it required more time than most civilian employers were happy about. If your full time job allows, you may find it's more relaxed and definitely good flying.

UH60L-IP · June 11, 2014

My observation. I sit down across from students five days a week. These were students that no doubt cared enough about becoming a LT or WO that they put in the effort. Getting aviation as a LT and going through a WOFT packet to be a warrant are not easy tasks. Based upon those facts and reading the wannabes on this forum, you'd think it was all sunshine and roses for these guys when they see me on the flightline day one. You'd think that they would study every waking hour because they are fulfilling their dream. Well, they are not sunshine and roses and sometimes it's apparent they don't study enough. By the time they see me they have dealt with over a year's worth of WOCS, BOLC, SERE, funeral detail, trash detail, and spent the better part of a hundred hours with a crusty TH-67 instructor pilot that may have treated them like dirt. They sit down with me day one and I hand them a 5 & 9 test.

Here's the rub. I know they are glad to be here. I know the effort they put in on a regular basis. I know they are glad to fly the advanced aircraft - they show it and we have fun. But it is not the full days of sunshine that you wannabes have images of dancing in your heads. And guess what, it won't be when they graduate and get to their units either. Nobody will pat them on the back and tell them good job for graduating (other than their mom and dad). They will put extra duties in their lap and they will get to fly when they are told they can fly. That's just being honest.

There is plenty to gripe about in the Army, and that is true for aviation. I don't care how peachy you think it will be, you will be griping if you ever become an Army aviator because that is what Army aviators do. The "WOLF" and "WORM" are very active and at times outspoken.

But.... at the end of the day, if you sit back and think about where you are at you are going to understand (most likely) that you have a great job with good pay and good benefits. You will not always be on the bottom (though even when you make rank there will be other kinds of BS). Deployments suck for the most part. Time away from family sucks. Paying the bills and having extra is great. Job security is great (at least for your initial term). Benefits are great in many ways, not so great in others. There are a lot worse jobs.

Your take-away from all this.

I have a nice home and a comfortable paycheck. I fly as much as I want. I've got twin turbine time, a lot of actual IMC time, sling load time, night time, NVG time, over 12,500lb time, a S70 type rating, and more. With deployments and the amount I fly here at Rucker there are honestly no jobs on the outside that I want to do that I am not qualified for and perhaps likely much more qualified for than other potential applicants. I am 80% likely to leave the active Army after my obligation. If I do so, I am 100% likely to remain Guard/Reserve to keep some retirement going. Personally, I see a huge upside to having a civilian flying career that keeps me where I want to be (no Korea, unaccompanied tours, etc.) while getting an extra paycheck and ultimately having two retirement checks. I could stay active duty until retirement, but honestly, I weigh the BS and don't think it's worth it. Maybe the grass is always greener but Guard/Reserve I only put up with the BS part-time and a civilian employer won't make me fill out a vehicle inspection form just because I want to drive my kids to Disney.

zVo · June 11, 2014

Amen.

Flim · June 12, 2014

I can tell you from the civilian side the grass is not always greener.... and I have had some cushy jobs.

StockTrader · June 12, 2014

I can tell you from the civilian side the grass is not always greener.... and I have had some cushy jobs.

Agreed. I've wanted to be an aviator since a child. By going WOFT im taking a big pay cut and loss of a ton of free time. But i'd rather go for a dream and be "ok" financially than be miserable behind my desk any longer and be "good" financially.

Jhanner1 · June 12, 2014

I agree the grass is almost never greener, and the bs and bitching that comes along with the army is also very present in the civilian world especially aviation. Corporate aviation is so cut throat and full of political bs you have to have pretty thick skin and good patience to put up with it. I'm personally sick of wondering how I'm gonna pay the bills month to month due to contract negations and all the Washington beuracry. I'm with JeffinPa that'd id give up my salary in an instant for the opportunity to serve my country and do something I love while doing it.

smalltownguy · June 14, 2014

The best, well-kept secret: Army National Guard.
....

This pretty much sums it up:

I got a kick out of this photo but personally I'd choose the active route. As far as life after, there are plenty of defense contractor companies that will gladly hire you and KEEP you. Catch is, you gotta do your research and not just pick a company based on the biggest salary they offer. Good luck with whatever you choose!

wrs91 · June 14, 2014

My opinion, go Guard. It was the best decision I have made. You can keep that high paying civilian job AND get paid to fly state of the art helicopters. Expect to sacrifice some free time though. If you are serious about it, find out where the nearest flight facility is and make an appointment to speak with the Commander. There you will get facts from someone who was once in your shoes, not rumors and opinion from an online forum. If you show some sincerity and humility along with your aviation skills, they will find a way to help you make it happen. It may not be an easy journey, but you will never regret it. As for the attitudes, only you can control that. Stay positive and motivated and you will rise to the top.

Jhanner1 · June 19, 2014

I've looked into the guard but with the way my civilian job is going I think active duty is the better choice for me. I spoke with with my local aviation unit commander and their actually losing aircraft to AD in 2015, so he discouraged me from applying at this time. I'm taking my instrument checkride July 20 and then I'm gonna schedule my sift and flight physical. Just gonna drop my packet and see what happens. I've been working for this for years and I'm gonna keep at it until selected.

smalltownguy · June 19, 2014

Go for it man! And good luck on that instrument check ride!

Jhanner1 · June 19, 2014

Thanks man! Just ready to move forward and take the next step

USAR153D · June 19, 2014

My observation. I sit down across from students five days a week. These were students that no doubt cared enough about becoming a LT or WO that they put in the effort. Getting aviation as a LT and going through a WOFT packet to be a warrant are not easy tasks. Based upon those facts and reading the wannabes on this forum, you'd think it was all sunshine and roses for these guys when they see me on the flightline day one. You'd think that they would study every waking hour because they are fulfilling their dream. Well, they are not sunshine and roses and sometimes it's apparent they don't study enough. By the time they see me they have dealt with over a year's worth of WOCS, BOLC, SERE, funeral detail, trash detail, and spent the better part of a hundred hours with a crusty TH-67 instructor pilot that may have treated them like dirt. They sit down with me day one and I hand them a 5 & 9 test.

Here's the rub. I know they are glad to be here. I know the effort they put in on a regular basis. I know they are glad to fly the advanced aircraft - they show it and we have fun. But it is not the full days of sunshine that you wannabes have images of dancing in your heads. And guess what, it won't be when they graduate and get to their units either. Nobody will pat them on the back and tell them good job for graduating (other than their mom and dad). They will put extra duties in their lap and they will get to fly when they are told they can fly. That's just being honest.

There is plenty to gripe about in the Army, and that is true for aviation. I don't care how peachy you think it will be, you will be griping if you ever become an Army aviator because that is what Army aviators do. The "WOLF" and "WORM" are very active and at times outspoken.

But.... at the end of the day, if you sit back and think about where you are at you are going to understand (most likely) that you have a great job with good pay and good benefits. You will not always be on the bottom (though even when you make rank there will be other kinds of BS). Deployments suck for the most part. Time away from family sucks. Paying the bills and having extra is great. Job security is great (at least for your initial term). Benefits are great in many ways, not so great in others. There are a lot worse jobs.

Your take-away from all this.

I have a nice home and a comfortable paycheck. I fly as much as I want. I've got twin turbine time, a lot of actual IMC time, sling load time, night time, NVG time, over 12,500lb time, a S70 type rating, and more. With deployments and the amount I fly here at Rucker there are honestly no jobs on the outside that I want to do that I am not qualified for and perhaps likely much more qualified for than other potential applicants. I am 80% likely to leave the active Army after my obligation. If I do so, I am 100% likely to remain Guard/Reserve to keep some retirement going. Personally, I see a huge upside to having a civilian flying career that keeps me where I want to be (no Korea, unaccompanied tours, etc.) while getting an extra paycheck and ultimately having two retirement checks. I could stay active duty until retirement, but honestly, I weigh the BS and don't think it's worth it. Maybe the grass is always greener but Guard/Reserve I only put up with the BS part-time and a civilian employer won't make me fill out a vehicle inspection form just because I want to drive my kids to Disney.

Probably one of the most insightful posts I've read on here in a long time. Thank you, Sir.

Yamer · June 20, 2014

And the most accurate.... I'd go back and re-read that post five more times just to make sure everyone really understands what is gonna happen down the line

DavidMH47 · July 7, 2014

It's all up to you. I know guys that hate it and I know guys that love it. I personally love my job. If you are the type of person that that gets all spun up about things that you have no control over, you might not enjoy it. There is alot of dumb shite that comes down from the top and unfortunately the Platoon Leader is some kid straight out of college that has no idea how to shield his guys from it. It can get stupid. The whole reason I switched from the Navy was to come to the 160th. I love it here, I get to do things in a 47 that would make a big army risk assessment soil itself. Don't get me wrong we get some of the silly games here too, but our leadership is much better at deflecting it, for the most part. So in my honest opinion, if you don't sweat the small stuff, it's all gravy.