Special Program

[Flying Pig]

OK..... I am 99.99999% sure I know the answer, but I wouldn't be able to live with myself unless I asked. Ive never heard of, nor ever seen anything about this....

 

However.... I met a DPE who is also a retired CWO5. He told me that the Army has a special program for civilian helicopter pilots who have Comm/Inst/CFI ratings and who are prior service. He told me you apply and then get fast tracked straight through flight school and essentially start with the airframe you are being assigned to and basically skip initial flight school. So I reply.. "Well, Im 39yrs old so its not an option anyway." He then says "They deduct your years of service from your age. So for application purposes, you are 31." He went on to say "The Army is hurting for pilots. You need to look into it."

 

From what I have seen and read.... the LAST thing the Army is hurting for is pilots. The guy is in his 60s so Im wondering if his knowledge of the needs of the Army are from the 1990s and not 2014?

 

 

[Lindsey]

I call bullshit. Besides, why would you want to fast track through flight school? You're getting paid to fly. Free turbine time. I'd never pass that up even if it WAS an option.

[brackac]

The Army is far from hurting for pilots. Just go ask the 58 community. In regards to a "special program". I had a 2k hour civilian Bell 206 pilot and a 7k hour commercial airline pilot with my from start to finish. Doesn't mean there wasn't at one time.

[UH60L-IP]

We are not hurting for pilots. The Army seems to be working hard to get rid of them. We see that daily. So that rumor quashed.

 

The Army does not deduct your years of service from your age for the purposes of flying eligibility. That rumor is also quashed.

 

Challenging flight school is possible, though very rare. I was asked to challenge primary and instruments, going immediately to BWS and then advanced airframe (of my choice if I successfully challenged). I had over a thousand hours of civilian flight time, including time in the B206 (TH-67). I refused to challenge without hesitation - why give up several months of vacation? There have been certain colleges where graduates (of a flight program) do minimal training and then advance - but most advanced aircraft instructors will tell you that they have taken more work than the ones that just go through the whole thing. So that particular rumor is somewhat true - though so rare as to be of little use.

[Velocity173]

I've never heard of this "special program." Never heard of anyone going straight to AQC and then into an active unit based on civ time.

 

I think he's referring to a few DOD instructors that get on the flight line based on their civilian qualifications. For instance, I knew a couple of guys that instructed in the Spanish course because they had Huey experience as civilians. When the Huey's went away, they got 60 transitions. They were DOD civilians though and not RA.

 

Their used to be an agreement with UND ROTC that allowed their students reduced flying hours but they still had to do primary, instruments and tactics.

 

In the IP course you can challenge the whole thing regardless of previous civ or military quals but no one does that.

 

I don't think you would need that program even it it did exist. Active duty might be a stretch with your age but you could find an NG unit. Had a 40 yr old NG guy for a student once.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Velocity173

[apacheguy]

I had a warrant in the guard who did something vaguely like this, but he was an IP for US Airways and had been an AF RLO, so skipping flight school was on his list of things to do. If he can cite a reg or MILPER it would make his case stronger.

 

As far as the army being short on pilots, let me add to the chorus above, we ain't short on pilots. If anything we have far too many.

[zVo]

The only "abbreviated" flight course I've ever heard of in the Army was for fixed-wing -- and it's ran by the ARNG. If you're a fixed-wing pilot with over 500 multi-engine fixed-wing hours, I've heard of guys getting a job flying UC-35s out in Texas. Granted, 500 hours was the minimum and the two people I know that skipped IERW and went straight to a FW AQC had 2,000+ turbine hours in jets.

 

URS is the civilian contractor that teaches IERW Primary, but I highly doubt that's what he's referring to.

[Flying Pig]

The Army wasn't short pilots a few years ago when my age waiver was denied.... so I didnt think they were short pilot now by any means. The conversation was interesting..... it was basically "Yeah, with your qualifications you as good as in!!"

 

So I said "Uhhhhhh.... OK." Thanks. I had researched WOFT pretty hard back when I did everything. So I didnt think I missed this route. No worries..... I still get to fly Hueys and 58s

[Lindsey]

No worries..... I still get to fly Hueys and 58s

 

Two of my favorites...

[Bootcamp]

The instructor who sat at the table next to me in Instruments mentioned to me that he was a direct-commission pilot. He said he was initially direct-commissioned as a warrant officer and then later as a commissioned officer.

 

In all fairness, he claims this happened back in the 70s when the Army was hurting for pilots.

[I3uller]

I have heard of someone doing a primary bypass. People with CFI and instrument and all that basically just doing their check rides and skipping primary. Supposedly it exists. But you still have to do WOCS, bolc, etc.

[Lindsey]

I have heard of someone doing a primary bypass. People with CFI and instrument and all that basically just doing their check rides and skipping primary. Supposedly it exists. But you still have to do WOCS, bolc, etc.

 

That's so stupid. Why you would pass up free flight time and quality instruction is beyond me.

[Yamer]

I'm standing in Lindsey's corner but it doesn't apply to me anyways...

 

I went to bct with tons of ar15 experience but I never told anyone and I actually learned some new stuff.....

 

Don't be that guy with the closed mind

[Joe_P148]

Is it the Army isn't short on pilots? Or is it the Army is short on flying hours and missions?

 

Either way, the Army doesn't need any more pilots right now is the general consensus.

[Flim]

It seems the slots for fy15 will be few compared to the past.

[apacheguy]

I have heard of someone doing a primary bypass. People with CFI and instrument and all that basically just doing their check rides and skipping primary. Supposedly it exists. But you still have to do WOCS, bolc, etc.

University of North Dakota Army ROTC.

 

"Upon graduating from UND/Aerospace and its U.S. Army ROTC Helicopter Flight Training Program, you’ll be commissioned as a second lieutenant. Within 60 days, you’ll then receive your order to Ft. Rucker, Ala. There, you’ll bypass initial army flight school and then directly enter advanced military-operations helicopter training.

 

http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/proficiency/careers/university-of-north-dakotaaerospace.html#.U6o2gyAo7IU

 

[Bootcamp]

I have heard of someone doing a primary bypass. People with CFI and instrument and all that basically just doing their check rides and skipping primary. Supposedly it exists.

 

When I started Primary, my IP made the offer to "see if I could bypass", but I told him I would rather stick it out. I was hoping that URS would offer me a job after graduation.

 

 

That's so stupid. Why you would pass up free flight time and quality instruction is beyond me.

 

That's a fair argument, my counter-argument would be that we could go back to our civilian jobs sooner where we are logging 8 hours a day instead of 1.2...but then again...active duty pay is nice. :-)

[urs151]

I wouldn't hold on to the possibility of URS offering you a job. Three lay-off notices were given out about 2 weeks ago. A handful of IP's took a voluntary LOA so the three could hold on to their jobs for 6 more weeks. Besides, the latest rumor is that when we transition over to the Lakotas, the syllabus and class size is going to be reduced further. But that's all just rumor at the moment

[Dnr032]

The National Guard has (or had?) a program called Acquired Civilian Skills Program years ago. Under this program, having certificates in various civilian technical skills, would allow you to enlist in the Army Guard and either Commission as an Officer or Warrant directly and then qualify in that MOS. And yes, Aviation was one of the listed skill sets. If selected under the program, it was basically a waiver for flight school; the candidate would still have to attend AQC's and other specialty schools.

 

In my 27 years in the Guard, I have only met ONE person who was an Army Aviator who came on under this program. This individual was VERY well connected politically (his Father was a State Legislator who now has an airport with his name on it) and he joined the Guard during the mid to late 70's when manning was most likely an issue.

 

To be selected for an Acquired Civilian Skills slot, it required a waiver from the G-1 at National Guard Bureau. However, the first stop of the packet was the State Aviation Officer in the state. In my time in the guard, I saw several (6 or so) civilian pilots apply for the program and not get the first required signature so the packet died and immediate and abrupt death.

 

I am sure that is the program in which the DME is referring. Unfortunately, it is old and dated information. Like so many other things in life, timing is everything. The Guard is stacked 6-8 deep with qualified pilots. With the coming down-sizing of the active component, that puts even more current and qualified pilots looking to fill those Army Guard pilots slots. So, I highly doubt, (if the program still exists), any pilots would be selected and sent to an Advanced Aircraft Qualification course when so many qualified candidates are available. Unless of course, you meet the political qualifications as stated above.

[apacheguy]

I wouldn't hold on to the possibility of URS offering you a job. Three lay-off notices were given out about 2 weeks ago. A handful of IP's took a voluntary LOA so the three could hold on to their jobs for 6 more weeks. Besides, the latest rumor is that when we transition over to the Lakotas, the syllabus and class size is going to be reduced further. But that's all just rumor at the moment

This makes me wonder why I'm seeing announcements for Rucker IP's again.....

[Flying Pig]

DNR....

 

Thats exactly what he called it, "ACS program". OK, thanks. Obviously his info was a little dated by a decade or three.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Flying Pig

[urs151]

URS had quite a few layoffs at the end of calendar year 2013 into the beginning of 2014. It was because the class size was supposed to go down. Class sizes were in the 50's and the numbers dropped into the 30's. Since then, class numbers went back up into the 40's and the white book projected it to stay that way. URS started to bring back some of the layoffs but they were concerned that some would not return so HR started putting out job announcements. But class sizes are slowly going back down again. So, needless to say, layoffs are starting again

I can only speak for Primary Division though.

[UH60L-IP]

To piggy back off of the bringing back IPs comments, we have rehired a few (nowhere near all) of the S3 contractor UH60 IPs that were laid off just a couple of months back. However, they are only on a 90 day contract. Some will say that the big Army is going to utilize that 90 days to decide whether or not to rebid the contract or leave it with S3 - I kinda think that the Army simply has no idea what they will need 90 days from now and want to delay the decision as long as possible. There is a lot of uncertainty around Rucker right now.

[Rob1237051]

I have been flying a Blackhawk for 10 days and I've been subjected to 5 different instructor pilots/techniques.

 

Sure wish they had enough permanent IPs.

[A-aron]

I have been flying a Blackhawk for 10 days and I've been subjected to 5 different instructor pilots/techniques.

 

Sure wish they had enough permanent IPs.

I know how you feel... For the first part of my private license I basically always flew with a different instructor. By the time I got done with it I probably flew with around 11 different people and it could be annoying as hell since they all want things done differently. Normally nothing too big, but all sorts of little pet peeves that would piss them off.