Arrogant CFIs / Pilots in a FLIGHT SUIT

[Falko]

Is it just me , because I don’t like arrogant people or are there really quit a bit CFIs out there who think, just because they wear a FLIGHT SUIT to be something special ?

 

I mean, just because to be an instructor on a r22 or r44 who flies every day in the pattern, should not be a reason to think “Hey, I am wearing a flight suit and it says her on my FAA plastic card FLIGHT INSTRUCOR and lots of people that I know are jealous about the job I have + all my students are impressed by my flying skills …. So, I must be a KIND OF A BIG DEAL ?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Iam just wondering what causes this phenomenon. Is this behavior based on lack in attention, that those guys did not get in their life so far or what ?

 

It also funny to see the change in person that was once a student and after couple of months the same guy jumps into his second skin(flight suit) and behaves like "MR. SUPER PILOT"

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

Falko

[Guest rotorflyr84]

The day you develop an attitude like that, is the day the end is near for you. Arrogance and the such spells out disaster in my opinion. I wouldn't be that instructors student. Sorry. Just my two cents.

[Kilkenny]

Hmmm....the instructor spends his entire time teaching the student how to fly safely. Yet, why is he sneered upon when hear decides to wear a fire retardant nomex flight suit? I ride motorcycles and I always tell my dad when he rides his to dress for the slide not the ride. The same should apply when instructing in an R22. What's that saying my instructor told me? Oh, it's not IF you have an engine failure, it's WHEN.

[Kilkenny]

You guys are absolutely right. Wearing a fire retardant nomex flight suit while instructing complete morons such as myself, who try to kill him every chance I get, day in and day out in an R22 is a sign of arrogance. Those turds, what nerve.

[299215]

Curious where you are witnessing this?

[Sparker]

Is it just me , because I don’t like arrogant people or are there really quit a bit CFIs out there who think, just because they wear a FLIGHT SUIT to be something special ?

 

I mean, just because to be an instructor on a r22 or r44 who flies every day in the pattern, should not be a reason to think “Hey, I am wearing a flight suit and it says her on my FAA plastic card FLIGHT INSTRUCOR and lots of people that I know are jealous about the job I have + all my students are impressed by my flying skills …. So, I must be a KIND OF A BIG DEAL ?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Iam just wondering what causes this phenomenon. Is this behavior based on lack in attention, that those guys did not get in their life so far or what ?

 

It also funny to see the change in person that was once a student and after couple of months the same guy jumps into his second skin(flight suit) and behaves like "MR. SUPER PILOT"

 

What do you guys think?

Falko

buyavowel?

 

 

 

I think there should be a bit of pride and/or honor in completing training and being a pilot. You are generalizing quite a bit and you haven't cited a specific case of "arrogance". Did you get snubbed? Do the head nod and they wouldn't nod back?

 

For me that flight suit will cost about 70K cash and uncountable hours of studying and working to pay for it all, the sacrifices are unimaginable at times. I will take pride in my accomplishment, but I will not be above anybody or act as if I am better than them.

 

To me, you sound a little jealous.

 

I don't intend to offend, but can you be more specific about what is going on than just speaking in generalities about every CFI being a jackass?

 

The CFI's I have encountered so far have been amazingly helpful and gone out their way to teach me what they know and give me a head start on training, free stuff and an open line to call anytime with questions. They bust their ass and get paid in peanuts and ramen. Give them a break.

 

my .02

[Witch]

I wear a flight suit because people tell me that I'm special.

 

Really, I wear it mostly for the cheese factor. It's cheesey to wear the helmet too. Wear both together and I'm really cheesey.

 

Reminds me of a story: A CFI from another school was in the FBO and I walked in. One of the airplane instructors asks me why helicopter pilots wear flight suits. I answered "Because of the cool factor." and asked the CFI "Right?". He just laughed trying to stay out of the conversation.

 

As for the arrogance, I can understand what Falko is experiencing. Others I've known have gotten swollen heads and egos after accomplishing a task some consider elite. The way I figure, there are no elite, just some that accomplish more. Kinda like Tom Cruise.

 

Falko...I feel your pain.

 

Later

[apiaguy]

I'm going to laugh the whole time I write this......

Oh, who cares. If you want to wear the suit... go for it, same with the helmet. If I had to instruct in the r22 I would WANT to.

 

Yes, If I had to fly with someone wearing the suit I would laugh the whole time... even if we crash... call me a fool.

 

It reminds me of doctors and their lab coats... at some schools they even have a special time when you get to put on your "coat" and now you're a real doctor! Then they burn their "student" coats.

 

Sooner or later I'll have a helmet and some fancy suit for my ag spraying adventures. Figure I'll need it. (but there won't be anybody in there with me to laugh)

Edited November 30, 2007 by apiaguy

[RotorWeed]

I don’t think Falco was referring to all CFI’s that wear flight suits; only a small minority. Most of the instructors I’ve met are wonderful, helpful people that really care about their students, and safety. I did however noticed a few CFI’s at the RHC safety course who wore flight suits to class every day (they were all from a big flight school you can guess the name). They took pleasure in trying to correct our instructors during the presentations, and name drop every opportunity. They embarrassed themselves, and their flight school in front of the class in my opinion.

 

RW

[HelliBoy]

I've met arrogant garbage men, they wore these cool reflective jumpsuits and rode on the back of a truck like they were sooooo cool..they make 3x what a CFI makes. There are deeply unlikeable people everywhere. Lower time CFIs have no right to be arrogant in my mind- you are the lowest man on the totem pole in this industry and havent earned jack yet. Most forget the words of the examiner when he hands you your CFI ticket--"here is your license to learn." The ones I have the most respect for are the ones who keep doing it after they could move on. One of my buddies CFIs at a school where flightsuits are mandatory- he hates it; says he'd rather burn quickly in a crash than slowly throughout the florida summer. I would reccomend a helmet before a flightsuit- you're going to burn regardless of what you're wearing if you're unconcious and cant get out.

[helonorth]

Hmmm....the instructor spends his entire time teaching the student how to fly safely. Yet, why is he sneered upon when hear decides to wear a fire retardant nomex flight suit? I ride motorcycles and I always tell my dad when he rides his to dress for the slide not the ride. The same should apply when instructing in an R22. What's that saying my instructor told me? Oh, it's not IF you have an engine failure, it's WHEN.

 

You (or your instructor) overstate the risk by the "when not if" statement. Most of the people I

work with have thousands of hours without an engine failure and most retire without ever having

one. The people I know that have crashed ( all with perfectly good running engines ) never

experienced a fire except one, and no flight suit or helmet would have done any good. If there

was a good reason to wear a flight suit, our insurance would have made it manditory long ago.

Flight suit (non-issued) = big ego. Big egos = poor instructors. Usually.

Edited November 30, 2007 by helonorth

[LadyShay]

I wear a flight suit because people tell me that I'm special.

 

Really, I wear it mostly for the cheese factor. It's cheesey to wear the helmet too. Wear both together and I'm really cheesey.

 

Reminds me of a story: A CFI from another school was in the FBO and I walked in. One of the airplane instructors asks me why helicopter pilots wear flight suits. I answered "Because of the cool factor." and asked the CFI "Right?". He just laughed trying to stay out of the conversation.

 

As for the arrogance, I can understand what Falko is experiencing. Others I've known have gotten swollen heads and egos after accomplishing a task some consider elite. The way I figure, there are no elite, just some that accomplish more. Kinda like Tom Cruise.

 

Falko...I feel your pain.

 

Later

 

This actually made me laugh hard enough to post something.

 

And reminded me of something one of my peers said the night we were all out celebrating...he had just gotten his PPL and I had just completed my CPL.

 

"Renting a helicopter...265 bucks an hour. Instructor...40 an hour. Total cost of flight school...70 grand. Being able to get laid by any chick in the bar once you tell them you're a helicopter pilot...priceless."

 

I'll bet the flight suit helps with the last part.

 

LadyShay

[Gerhardt]

It seems to be typical that the average SEL PPL has a swollen ego. Make that a helo PPL and the swelling increases.

 

Funny thing though, most helo CFIs seem to be fairly down to earth.

[Bradley P]

HEY NOW- I wear a flight suit and I don't have an over-inflated ego. I am the same guy, whether I am wearing the suit, or not.

 

BP

[nodriskol]

Santa is the same guy too in his suit or out ... isn't he?

[Mikemv]

To All, I have worn a flight suit in the Military, on Gov. contracts, giving Instruction and at other times when it was required or suggested. The Instructors at the Bell Helicopter Academy and at the American Eurocopter Flight Training Center also all wear flight suits. I never realized we were all arrogant a-holes, so I guess we are judged by underlings and we should never wear a flight suit again. Will all of you that judge us by wearing a flight suit please step up and take a check ride with us so we can tell everyone about the results when you did not wear a flight suit? Why not spend some time improving yourselves and your skills rather than talking about Flight Suits? Ready for the Check Ride yet? Lets Go fly without a flight suit! Mike

[permison]

Falko,

Is your problem with the CFI that they are arrogant or that they wear flight suits? If it's that they are arrogant then just avoid them. Aviation is one of those fields where there are big egos. You just have to learn to accept that. Every pilot I know has the Top Gun chip on their shoulder. Face it we are able to do something most of the world can't or doesn't. With that understanding will come a bit of ego. Deal with it. Your going to meet people like this for the rest of your career.

 

If your problem is just that they wear flight suits, then get a life dude. Flight Suits and Flight Helmets are safety gear. A very large portion (more than 50%) of helicopter pilots are required to wear Flight Suits and Helmets as part of thier job. There is a lot more helicopter flying then just the GOM. Almost everyone who flies EMS, Police, or any goverment contract will wear flightsuits and helmets (there are of course exceptions but they are rare).

 

This is not directed at you Falko, but It is concerning to me that over the past year I can recall at least 4 of these discussions over the use of flight suits. Who gives a crap if someone wears a flight suit or helmet in a R22 or an Apache. In either case the use has been shown to increase the wearers’ odds of survival. Complaining about it is like complaining about the use of seat belts in cars or helmets on motorcycles. I am going to attach two articles from the Flight Safety Foundation which sites the benefits of safety gear in clothing and the benefits of using helmets. Statistics and studies have shown (see attached articles) the benefits yet people continue to debate it.

 

I did a search on the NTSB accident database for "fire" and "helicopter" and found 230 reports since 2002. So you can’t tell me that this never happens. There are 230 reasons that show me the benefits of the use of safety gear. I am not saying that the use would have guaranteed the survival in these crashes but I am pointing this out to dispute the statement made by Helonorth. This is not a non issue. It happens and happens often.

 

I am not a CFI, I do have dual commercial ratings and have been flying since 89. Depending on the flying I do, I will wear both at times. I don't care what people think about me. If I have a crash I know I am going to have a better chance of going home that day then someone who is not wearing a flight suit and helmet.

Permison

hs_nov_dec98_1_.pdf

ccs_mar_apr99_1_.pdf

[BOATFIXERGUY]

Is it just me , because I don’t like arrogant people or are there really quit a bit CFIs out there who think, just because they wear a FLIGHT SUIT to be something special ?

 

Falko

 

Falko, I've been flying since 1985 (dating myself), and have met hundreds of CFi's and working pilots. I find the aviation community to be the exact opposite as you describe. Pilots go out of their way to help others. Pilots, including myself, wear protective gear. I usually wear the helmet and nomex on certain missions, but many companies use the nomex as a uniform. The helicopter industry is all about image. Uniforms and safety precautions add to not only the safety of the flight, but the perception by the clients.

 

Maybe you just caught someone on a bad day. I don't think it is representative of the industry in a whole.

 

-john

[K-38]

I thought that RHC even put out a safety notice advising CFIs to wear nomex flight suits to increase survivability from a post crash fire.

[PhilJ]

RHC did indeed issue a safety notice (but not limited to CFIs) advising wearing Nomex suits, which I believe was in response to a post crash fire where the pilot got burn't.

 

My previous flying job had me wearing a flight suit for 14 hr days 6 days a week, in the summer no one would know if I was arrogant or not by the end of the week as the suit stank so bad no-one would come near!

[permison]

I spoke with Falko last night via PM. He's a good guy. His issue was not in the use of wearing flight suits (he wears one himself) but a new IP that joined his company that is a little over the top. God knows I've been accused of being over the top on occasion. I'm a helicopter pilot. How do you know who the helicopter pilot in a group is? He'll tell you.

[wannabe heli pilot]

My previous flying job had me wearing a flight suit for 14 hr days 6 days a week, in the summer no one would know if I was arrogant or not by the end of the week as the suit stank so bad no-one would come near!

PhilJ,LOL! In between washings I used fabreeze!

 

Permission, Is that an APBT in your avatar?

[permison]

PhilJ,LOL! In between washings I used fabreeze!

 

Permission, Is that an APBT in your avatar?

 

Nope, that's my copilot Chewie. He's a yellow lab.

[helonorth]

Falko,

Is your problem with the CFI that they are arrogant or that they wear flight suits? If it's that they are arrogant then just avoid them. Aviation is one of those fields where there are big egos. You just have to learn to accept that. Every pilot I know has the Top Gun chip on their shoulder. Face it we are able to do something most of the world can't or doesn't. With that understanding will come a bit of ego. Deal with it. Your going to meet people like this for the rest of your career.

 

If your problem is just that they wear flight suits, then get a life dude. Flight Suits and Flight Helmets are safety gear. A very large portion (more than 50%) of helicopter pilots are required to wear Flight Suits and Helmets as part of thier job. There is a lot more helicopter flying then just the GOM. Almost everyone who flies EMS, Police, or any goverment contract will wear flightsuits and helmets (there are of course exceptions but they are rare).

 

This is not directed at you Falko, but It is concerning to me that over the past year I can recall at least 4 of these discussions over the use of flight suits. Who gives a crap if someone wears a flight suit or helmet in a R22 or an Apache. In either case the use has been shown to increase the wearers’ odds of survival. Complaining about it is like complaining about the use of seat belts in cars or helmets on motorcycles. I am going to attach two articles from the Flight Safety Foundation which sites the benefits of safety gear in clothing and the benefits of using helmets. Statistics and studies have shown (see attached articles) the benefits yet people continue to debate it.

 

I did a search on the NTSB accident database for "fire" and "helicopter" and found 230 reports since 2002. So you can’t tell me that this never happens. There are 230 reasons that show me the benefits of the use of safety gear. I am not saying that the use would have guaranteed the survival in these crashes but I am pointing this out to dispute the statement made by Helonorth. This is not a non issue. It happens and happens often.

 

I am not a CFI, I do have dual commercial ratings and have been flying since 89. Depending on the flying I do, I will wear both at times. I don't care what people think about me. If I have a crash I know I am going to have a better chance of going home that day then someone who is not wearing a flight suit and helmet.

Permison

 

Didn't say it was a nonissue. It's about risk assessment. Would you be safer in your car if you wore a

helmet? Sure. Now go and actually read those NTSB reports. I know it will only take one occurrance

for you to justify the suit. People do all kinds of strange things in the name name of "safety".

Carrying a gun comes to mind. But that is another topic that doesn't belong here. I guess most

people snicker at flight suit private pilots is that they look on it as an affectation. "Look at me,

in case you aren't sure, i'm a pilot!" And if there is any further confusion, the little leather patch with

wings on it will leave no doubt.

Edited December 2, 2007 by helonorth

[Jeff]

Is it just me , because I don’t like arrogant people or are there really quit a bit CFIs out there who think, just because they wear a FLIGHT SUIT to be something special ?

 

I mean, just because to be an instructor on a r22 or r44 who flies every day in the pattern, should not be a reason to think “Hey, I am wearing a flight suit and it says her on my FAA plastic card FLIGHT INSTRUCOR and lots of people that I know are jealous about the job I have + all my students are impressed by my flying skills …. So, I must be a KIND OF A BIG DEAL ?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Iam just wondering what causes this phenomenon. Is this behavior based on lack in attention, that those guys did not get in their life so far or what ?

 

It also funny to see the change in person that was once a student and after couple of months the same guy jumps into his second skin(flight suit) and behaves like "MR. SUPER PILOT"

 

What do you guys think?

Falko

 

 

Falko,

 

The flight suit has nothing to do with it. I know instructors that never have and never will wear a flight suit that meet the personality profile you described. I think the problem is that certain people see an accomplished helicopter pilot wearing a flight suit and think of him (or her) as a "big deal" or a "super pilot" or someone who is very successful and respected in the helicopter community. What this person does not understand is that the "idolized" pilot is successful and respected because of his flying skills, integrity, humility, and commitment to excellence, and not because of the mere fact that he wears a flight suit. Because of this irrational thinking or idolatry, this pilot who sees himself as inferior to other pilots thinks that he can attain the same respect and success as the accomplished pilot by simply wearing the flight suit--which he sees as the only difference between himself and the other guy. I won't tell you the result, because you have so elegantly described it in your post.

 

~Jeff