CFIs looking for Jobs..

[RkyMtnHI]

Cfi’s looking for Jobs

 

I have been working on this for a long time and finally got some time to finish it up.. i hope others will add to it..

 

I get a ton of calls & emails from folks looking for jobs; CFIIs, mechanics, and pilots in training looking forward to their futures. There are many seasoned CFIs that are stuck not flying right now, for a number of reasons, and even more new ones looking for a place to go. I sincerely wish I could hire or place them all, but of course cannot, so I am posting here in an effort to help everyone that I can reach.

 

I do believe it’s getting better for us all, we sign up new students all the time, and the industry seems to be hanging in there more and more.

 

One of the weaknesses I have seen in upcoming and working CFIs is that they think that it’s just about flying, it’s all about being a good instructor, they want to fly helicopters and think that just getting their CFI is enough. That might have been so in the past, but now more than ever you have to stand out from the crowd.

 

If you are one of the lucky ones that have a job, KEEP it… do everything that you can to stay employed, even if you hate the place, do not take your position for granted as it could be gone in a flash and you will be out there with the rest of the crowd losing your currency daily. It’s much harder to get a job if you haven’t been flying for a few months. If you are not happy where you work, make it a better place; communicate with the owners, learn new skills that make you more valuable and help the business.. if there is no hope of improving the school (some don’t want to get better), then improve yourself and start looking NOW for a better job.. it’s much easier to get hired if you already have a job and are flying.

 

I tell everyone the same things, and I do spend quite a bit of time speaking with folks when they call or drop by, even tho I am very busy, I take the time because we are all in this together and we will see one another again… Here are some of the important things I tell everyone in the order of importance (in my humble opinion);

 

ONE: What ever you do, no matter what, go to Lyn Burks Heli-Success in Vegas. There is no doubt that this can be the best money spent in your whole career, and I expect every single person that has been there will tell you the same thing. It is a two-three day seminar/job fair that he puts on every year, I think this year will be the fourth time he’s done this and it’s remarkable who all shows up. The people that do participate are there to give back (the reason Lyn developed the program in the first place), and they really care about the industry and YOU! These are the movers and shakers in this industry and knowing them (which you will have the opportunity to do as it’s a very open relaxed atmosphere) will help your career in many ways. It’s very inexpensive; I went with one of my team last year and between the two of us we spent about $500 each including air fair, the entry fees & hotel.. you just cannot beat it. We encourage all of our pilots in training and team members to attend. I met one of my current CFIIs there last year and helped some other folks that I met there move on to jobs thru my contacts. I have said this many times; it is very hard for us to hire someone after one interview, the more people you meet and spend time with the better chance you have, and there will be a ton of folks that hire at this seminar and you WILL get to meet them face to face. Oh yeah, the lines at the job fair tables are MUCH shorter than the ones at HeliExpo, and the hiring folks don’t pack up and leave the minute it’s over, they are mostly there for the whole seminar. Would I recommend this for pilots in training? YES, even pre-private if you are serious about making this a career. You will learn about the different types of careers within our industry and meet folks that have been in your spot, there is no better way to figure out what you really want to do in the future and what the different areas of the industry are actually like. I tell you new CFIIs to save some money to make a road trip to meet as many operators as possible and get to know people in the industry, this is a way to do that all in one place over one weekend.. Remember, it’s not only who you know, but who knows you!! I also highly recommend that you do this every single year, the more you go, the more people you will know.

 

Make yourself more marketable, you want your resume to stand out.. here are a few ways you can do this all on your own for very little money, maybe for free!!

 

TWO: Study and learn about Scenario Based Training. It is a better way, it is coming (actually it’s kinda always been around in some environments, but now it’s being perfected and assimilated into our industry) and you can learn about it and implement it at your school or at least put it on your resume and pitch it at your next job interview, believe me, operators are looking for folks that can help them with their own SBT programs right now. You can figure this out on your own by doing research on line, or you can contact Mike Franz here on VR and he can help you find the info. Mike is sincerely trying to help our industry after a long career and has been on the forefront of this program since the start. If you are working at a flight school I highly recommend that you encourage your program director to contact Mike and get him to come out and explain how the whole program works, his goal is to give back and save lives. Here’s his email address: mikefranz@embarqmail.com

 

THREE: Learn about Safety Management Systems. SMS, much like SBT, is here. Literally everywhere you look in our industry and most others, insurance companies, corporations, everybody is requiring SMS programs. You can study on line, learn about SMS and put together a program for the company you now work for, or add it to your resume and pitch it to companies that you WANT to work for. If they don’t have a program in place now, they are thinking about it this very minute.. if they are not, they don’t have a clue what’s coming. Mike Franz has also helped us a lot in this area and would be a great resource for you and/or you company in this area as well.

 

All in all, it’s tough right now, and may be for a while, so you must hang in there where ever you are and make sure YOU stand out in the pile of resumes that most companies surely have. You probably have time to do all of the above, it’s cheap (or free) and it for sure will be a part of your future..

 

FOUR: Learn to network; you are here so that’s a great start. Go to Heli-Success, go to HeliExpo, go to area Wings seminars, become a FAASTeam member, write articles for magazines, send in your photos to magazines and on line forums/facebook pages.. Go visit every school you can get to, meet people, remember them, get to know them, sincerely know them.

 

FIVE: Learn how to write a better resume!! (This one should probably be number one or two, but can be part of number one as you can get great resume help at Heli-Success).

 

You can get an on-line resume book at Just Helicopters; http://www.thehelicopterstore.com/?Click=30, or do a search for resumes and look at as many as you can to get ideas… yours simply has to stand out to get noticed. Many times we are too busy to spend a lot of time looking at the ones we get, and may only touch it once.. you want to make sure it makes it to the ‘maybe’ pile instead of the trash can.

 

In closing:

 

If you want this, really want this, you can make it happen.. I expect it will be much, that is MUCH harder, then you imagine. It’s not all fun, especially when you move past being an instructor, it’s serious work and only the most dedicated and focused folks will make it.

 

I sincerely hope this helps some of you, and I encourage others in similar positions to add more.. My most important advice, actually Churchill’s;

 

never, ever, ever give up…

 

dp

[rick1128]

Dennis,

 

Excellent advice. I will add a few other suggestions.

 

1. Be a professional. In other words watch how you talk

and act not only when at the airport, but where ever

you might see or meet potential students or employers.

 

2. Take care of your students. Don't reschedule or shift

your students around so that you can take a 'better'

flight like a fly a turbine. Trust me, your students

will notice. It is one thing for your boss to

reschedule you, but if you do it you will get a

reputation and start losing students.

 

3. Don't bad mouth other model helicopters or other

schools. It reflects poorly on you. It is one thing to

tell people why you believe your school and the

helicopters you fly are better, but do not bad mouth

other people. I see many instructors do this.

Especially bad mouthing machines they have never flown.

 

4. Keep yourself neat and clean. It may seem like this is

stating the obvious. However, over the years I have run

across many instructors that will take a 'Marine Corp

Shower'. People will notice. While it is not easy to

stay clean when dealing with a helicopter, do the best

you can. These students are paying large sums of money.

They will not accept having to deal with someone they

are uncomfortable being around.

 

5. When you are working give a minimum of 110% effort.

Trust me it will be noticed. Instead of complaining

that someone got a promotion, look at what they have

done and are doing. If all things are equal, that

person did something that the boss thought was

special enough to look closer at that pilot. If a

special assignment comes up, don't just run and hide.

Look at it. It can be an opportunity to shine. If there

is a problem that needs to be solved, look at being the

one that fixes it. Things like this not only

give you a chance to shine in front of the boss, but

also positive lines to add to your resume.

 

6. While it is difficult to develop realistic scenarios

without real world experience, if you work at an

operation that also have charter or utility work, talk

with the pilots that are doing that work for possible

training scenarios. After all, they most likely

came up the same way you are doing right now. Plus the

people you have been talking with will remember you and

your interest.

 

7. While some schools discourage their pilots from hanging

around maintenance, if you can spend some time in the

shop talking with the mechanics. I used to help the

shop some on rainy days when there wasn't any flying or

training going on. I learned a lot more about the

aircraft I was operating. Plus additional things to

look for and things that can cause problems. These are

things I stuffed into my bag of tricks and passed on to

my students.

 

Many years ago I was unemployed looking for another job. I stopped by an operator and dropped off a resume for the Chief Pilot. I realize that Lyn keeps saying that this does not work. The problem is that many jobs are never advertised. Anyway about a week later, I got a call from the DO of this operator. His questions were: 'Are you willing to relocate?, be overworked and underpaid?, be put upon and abused?' Of course I said 'Yes!'. This seems like a fairy tale type phone interview. In the words of that old radio announcer 'here's the rest of the story'. Several years previous to this, the DO had been one of my primary students. I soloed him, I will not tell you how much time he had at the time. Soon after, I was moved into other parts of the operation, so I worked with this student and all my other students to put them with an instructor that fit them and their personalities. From time to time, I would run across them and ask how they were doing. The thing to keep in mind is that my phone interview was not the real interview. My real interview took place when that person was my student. There is a saying in the airlines. 'Be nice to your co-pilot, he may be your next Chief Pilot'. There is a lot more truth to that statement than your think.

Edited July 12, 2011 by rick1128

[Goldy]

"write articles for magazines"

 

Whew- Got one down....couple more to go!

 

DP-this should get pinned up top for all to read. How many times have we given out similar advice ?

[helifool]

Thanks for the info. I have let the dream slip, and almost slip completely away. Basically spent $70,000 got my CFII went to work at a small school. Never had enough students and couldn't pay rent (only getting paid per flight hour/ground hour) Got up to 350 hours. Tried for a year running around to find another school to teach at but nothing and eventually had to return home to work a regular job to make ends meet.

 

So now Ive been back for two years with no flying, no medical, no currency. I still have the dream but to get back to a place where Im marketable to a school/current as a CFI seems next to impossible without going back and spending tons of money to get current again only for schools to not care since I havnt worked in so long.

 

Now thats alot of gloom there and Im ashamed to write like that. I guess I'm just asking if there is hope for those of us in this sort of situation.

[r22butters]

I've been kind of wondering about the same thing. How long after you become a CFI will employers start to tell you, "Thanks, but we're really looking for someone with more recent experience."?

[gary-mike]

"write articles for magazines"

 

Whew- Got one down....couple more to go!

 

Finally got my paper copy of the article, outstanding job, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and the pictures!

[Spirit of '69]

Really, Dennis and Rick, this is why I love VR. I am in the same position as many, working towards my comm and ins ratings, so I'm slowly checking things off the list, and looking for new ways to stand out. I didn't see mention of the importance of multiple aircraft proficiency. I'm excited to give the R44 a go, but it's hard to know if the added expense is worth it on a resume. The reason I would want the endorsement is to fly tours/charter rather than instruct in the 44 at first. Right now I am contemplating training for the 10 hours of PIC or so to get a solo endorsement, (within the timeframe of ratings completion and becoming marketable). Though I have heard 25 hrs is the minimum for SFAR 73 with 25 hrs in the R22 as well to instruct (plus Robinson factory course). I have no time in either since I fly Schweizers, so a cost/benefit analysis from experienced chief pilots, h.r. or owners would help me plot my course. How important is R44 experience, rather than being 15-20 hrs more practiced in the Schweizer? Opinions?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Spirit of '69

[yzchopper]

Spirit of '69

 

If you plan on flying at any operation that uses the Robinson helicopters then get it, but if you only plan to fly the 269 then stay with it. To make it worth while though for the bigger operators out there you need a couple hundred hours in different makes and models. I have flown mostly R22's and have 25hrs in both the R44 and S300C. Most employers tell me thats good to see variety but I need more hours in those different varieties to make it worth while. It's great for total time though. I like this saying: It's better to have it an not need it than to need it an not have it. I personnally would get it, as lots of operators are starting to use Robinson helicopters for their operations. Good luck

 

Steve

[r22butters]

Is R44 experience worth it?,...Hell yes! Of course, I'm probably a little biased, since the only job interview I've ever had, was gotten because I had R44 time (however, they wanted 40hrs).

 

On the other hand, I've met a couple of CFIIs who got hired at the school where I used to rent, despite having no R44 time (the school had two R44s).

 

One thing is for sure, once you have around 500hrs, R44 time could get you out of teaching, so again, I definitely would get it. Although, with no R22 time, you'll most likely need 50hrs in the R44 to be marketable!?

 

The best thing you can do, and this has been said before, is to become the best candidate for hire at the school that trains you, because if they don't,...its all guess work! Who knows,...25hrs in an Enstrom could be what you need to get hired somewhere?,...or a CDL?

 

That probably didn't help much, though?

Edited January 16, 2012 by r22butters

[rotormandan]

RkytMtnHI - Great points. Seems it all boils down to networking in this buisness. Networking gets contacts and gets you caught up on where the industry is going

 

Rick1128 - Without these tips networking will only help a little. These are all the small things that make the big difference.

 

 

Good advice guys. This advice will be important even after a few thousand hours.

[hooked4life]

Yeah, great thread.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post it, dp. Makes me wish I would've kept up with this site a lot more over the past couple of years. Also, wish I would've read it before sending you an unsolicited email Oh well.

 

Also, thanks for your input Rick. I'm always grateful when people who have made it provide the rest of us with Insight and advice on how to do the same.

 

I have a question about Heli-Success though. Goldy, mentioned the same thing to me when we spoke last month and I was pretty bummed that I had missed out on it in October. When I got back from LA I immediately registered for the "mini" version of it at the expo this year, is that not as valuable as the full-blown 2 day version in Vegas?

[amos]

I read the post about heli success and it sounds like a really good experience. I got my comm. Heli licence about 3 month ago in Arizona. I'm from Kentucky an back in Kentucky right now. I'm willing and want to go on with my career but the hardest struggle for me is trying to find the best place where I can have the most potential to teach an work. Is there any tips that someone could give me?

Thanks

[helonorth]

^{I would say training at a busy school that has been around awhile is going to be your best shot at getting a CFI slot. I trained at a school that wasn't very busy but the owner was nice enough to put me on the schedule even though it was very part-time. Even though it wasn't much at first, I was working and had a foot in the door. As instructors moved on, I got busier and between instructing, photo work and some pipeline, I had my 1000 hours in about a year and a half (at that time, 1000 hours was plenty to move one). Fortunately I had another job that was really flexible and paid well, so I could still fly when the opportunities came up without starving to death. If you really want it, you'll figure out a way. Good luck.}

 

^{To spirit of 69: I worked where you're training at and never flew one hour in a Robinson.}

Edited January 17, 2012 by helonorth

[ADRidge]

Networking is great, but honestly making friends is better. I'd call almost everyone I know in this industry a friend. We've all talked about non-helicopter stuff over an adult beverage, and because of that not only am I more likely to pass along job opportunities to them, but they are more likely to help me out as well.

 

I can't say I've ever set out to strictly "network" before, and it's had some interesting results so far.

[Goldy]

Yeah, great thread.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post it, dp. Makes me wish I would've kept up with this site a lot more over the past couple of years. Also, wish I would've read it before sending you an unsolicited email Oh well.

 

Also, thanks for your input Rick. I'm always grateful when people who have made it provide the rest of us with Insight and advice on how to do the same.

 

I have a question about Heli-Success though. Goldy, mentioned the same thing to me when we spoke last month and I was pretty bummed that I had missed out on it in October. When I got back from LA I immediately registered for the "mini" version of it at the expo this year, is that not as valuable as the full-blown 2 day version in Vegas?

 

Lyn would probably chime in here if he had time. From what he has told me, the mini version at HAI is designed for those that could not make the Vegas event. You do get a lot out of Vegas, including interviews with a lot of potential employers. If you didn't make Vegas then I wouldn't miss HAI "Heli-Success Lite".

 

And, anyone that walks up and introduces themselves to me....I'll buy the first one.

[clay]

 

And, anyone that walks up and introduces themselves to me....I'll buy the first one.

 

Hi, My name is Clay. can I have my free beer now?

[nightsta1ker]

Great article. And some great commentary here too. As a CFI looking for work, I can say that persistence is the only thing that will get you anywhere. You have to pound the pavement. Jobs don't just fall into our laps these days, especially flying ones. My current holdup is lacking my instrument and II ratings, but I should be back in training soon. It's about impossible to get an instructing job without your CFII. My prior fixed wing time gave me enough hours to get my commercial and CFI without an instrument rating, with the goal being to teach part time while I continued training. This has not panned out well for me and I highly recommend that serious students who want to make this a career get their instrument first then commercial, then CFI and II as close together as possible. Financially, this is a nightmare, but being fresh, current, and employable might get you picked up right away, and probably by the school that taught you. Getting a job teaching at a school that did not train you is ten times harder then getting a job with YOUR school. I think the reasons for this are obvious, but a lot of us have to find out the hard way.

 

One other piece of advice, and this is from the heart. As an instructor, your attitude and professionalism is shaping the future of aviation. If you are in it for the hours, and hate instructing, it will show. Even if it's not what you want to do, even if it's the LAST thing you want to do. Learn to love it. Be positive. Be genuine. Pass on as much knowledge as you can. It's the only way you will be successful. It certainly is the only reason I have managed to hang on by one fingernail in this tough climate.

[ridethisbike]

I'd like to pose a question to some of the seasoned pilots reading this. There is a lot of talk between myself and a few of the other students at my school about sticking with the 44 after we get our instrument ratings. We'd also get R66 time in as well. So at the end of it all we'd have 64 hrs in the R22 and 126-131 in the R44 and 5-10 in the R66 if we stick with the R44 after instrument, compared to 30ish hrs in the R44 and the rest in the R22 if we decide to switch back to the R22 with no R66 time.

 

Any advice/comments regarding that?

 

Also, when is the next Heli-Success in Vegas?

 

EDIT: This is assuming my school does in fact get an R66 between now and next year. Also, the hours in the 66 is just a guess. Not sure how many we'd actually get, but I know it'd be at least 5.

[C of G]

I'd like to pose a question to some of the seasoned pilots reading this. There is a lot of talk between myself and a few of the other students at my school about sticking with the 44 after we get our instrument ratings. We'd also get R66 time in as well. So at the end of it all we'd have 64 hrs in the R22 and 126-131 in the R44 and 5-10 in the R66 if we stick with the R44 after instrument, compared to 30ish hrs in the R44 and the rest in the R22 if we decide to switch back to the R22 with no R66 time.

 

Any advice/comments regarding that?

 

Also, when is the next Heli-Success in Vegas?

 

EDIT: This is assuming my school does in fact get an R66 between now and next year. Also, the hours in the 66 is just a guess. Not sure how many we'd actually get, but I know it'd be at least 5.

 

What do you feel is the advantage to having predominantly 44 time? Are you looking at a low time 44 job straight out of your commercial certification?

 

I can see where your payload goes up with a wallet that much lighter.

[eagle5]

I wouldn't spend the extra money to do more than the IR in the 44 unless I signed a contract with the school guaranteeing a job afterwards! 50 hrs in the 44 can help you compete with other cfiis, if your school doesn't hire you, but there's really no difference between 50 hrs in one and 130 hrs! (except a lighter wallet)!

[Pohi]

I agree about the 44, any huge amount after 50 might be spending more money than you will get benefit for. Unless you don't care about the price, then go for it, they are easier and more fun(IMO).

 

As far as the 66, I really don't know about that one. If you plan on instructing at the school and think that you might get a shot at teaching in it, then enough hours for the school to feel comfortable with you teaching would (again, IMO ) be good. If not, I see it the same as buying time in a 206. If you have money to burn, and want to get some hours for s&g, then have fun.

 

Don't have the illusion that 6-10 hours of turbine will really help you get a turbine job. I think a prospective first time turbine employer would rather teach somebody fresh than have the 10 hour guy who might have bad habits, or the "well in the turbine ship I flew....." mentality.

 

Good luck with your decision, and enjoy your training.

 

 

[nightsta1ker]

Typically, you need at least 500 hours to do tours, and unless you can get a job that also teaches in the 44, I don't see how getting your 44 time in NOW is going to really help you.

[ridethisbike]

School took hold of my life for a bit there, my apologies for not responding.

 

A light wallet isn't a concern of mine as I'm using the Post 9-11 GI Bill. I thought I mentioned that in the post, but I was tired so I may have tricked myself.

 

I can definitely understand the apprehension a potential employer might have with the 10 hour turbine guy compared to the fresh meat, so to speak. The way I saw it was that a guy with more variety in his logbook would be more desirable than someone who has only flown one type. As far as the 44 being easier to fly, that isn't the first time I've heard that. That alone almost makes me want to stick with the 22. I'd rather master the hard to fly aircraft under the mindset "if you can fly __ you can fly anything." I believe it'd keep me more vigilant.

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll stick with the 22 :-)

 

On another note, do any of you have any recommendations for what WINGS courses to take? I finished Aeronautical Decision Making for VFR pilots and am in the middle of the fatigue (Fatigue Countermeasures, I believe) one that is aimed at AMT's (but obviously apply to everyone).

[rick1128]

I can definitely understand the apprehension a potential employer might have with the 10 hour turbine guy compared to the fresh meat, so to speak. The way I saw it was that a guy with more variety in his logbook would be more desirable than someone who has only flown one type. As far as the 44 being easier to fly, that isn't the first time I've heard that. That alone almost makes me want to stick with the 22. I'd rather master the hard to fly aircraft under the mindset "if you can fly __ you can fly anything." I believe it'd keep me more vigilant.

 

 

On another note, do any of you have any recommendations for what WINGS courses to take? I finished Aeronautical Decision Making for VFR pilots and am in the middle of the fatigue (Fatigue Countermeasures, I believe) one that is aimed at AMT's (but obviously apply to everyone).

 

Having a little variety in your logbook will help. Not necessarily turbine time. Get a few hours in a 300, maybe a Hiller or BH47. Doing that may open other possibilities to you.

 

You will learn something from just about every WINGs course. Even if you don't plan on flying around NYC or DC, do the courses for those airspaces. Since they don't cost you anything but time, do them all.

[Spike]

I can definitely understand the apprehension a potential employer might have with the 10 hour turbine guy compared to the fresh meat, so to speak. The way I saw it was that a guy with more variety in his logbook would be more desirable than someone who has only flown one type. As far as the 44 being easier to fly, that isn't the first time I've heard that. That alone almost makes me want to stick with the 22. I'd rather master the hard to fly aircraft under the mindset "if you can fly __ you can fly anything." I believe it'd keep me more vigilant.

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll stick with the 22 :-)

 

In my opinion,

 

If you are planning on seeking employment as a CFI, it’s beneficial to understand, most flight schools operate the S300, R22 or the R44 model aircraft. Therefore, as a matter of averages, in order to be marketable, it’s wise to be proficient in these machines. While having time in an additional make is nice (other than the ones mentioned), for the first time CFI job applicant, it won’t thrust you to the front of the hiring line. Same holds true for a turbine…….

 

The reality is, at the entry level, the pool of perspective applicants is essentially even. Meaning, at the initial two hundred hour mark, the range of experience is limited to instruction received and not much else. Therefore, the “verity” you speak of will still be minimal (read not a deal maker). Additionally, at the entry level, everyone is “fresh meat”……

 

At the entry level, in order to separate yourself from your competitors, you’ll need to bring something else to the table…. Find out what that “something else” is and you’d be one step ahead of the bunch…….

Edited April 18, 2012 by Spike