eagle5 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 I've heard of companies doing recurrent training (autos and what not) every so often, but do any of you have to to any "ground" recurrent training, or take any periodic tests/quizzes on your knowledge? Other than the BFR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Yeah we have an online course covering multiple topics that is taken every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 I've heard of companies doing recurrent training (autos and what not) every so often, but do any of you have to to any "ground" recurrent training, or take any periodic tests/quizzes on your knowledge? Other than the BFR. In EMS we do Avistar once a month. It's a computer based program that has like 4-5 practice tests and then a final test. Takes about 30 mins to do. Outside of that, that's the only ground based quiz/test I have to take until my annual NVG Proficiency eval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmfish Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 We go to Helistream every year for ground and flight recurrency. CBP uses them too. No tests though; we do standardization evals internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) I've heard of companies doing recurrent training (autos and what not) every so often, but do any of you have to to any "ground" recurrent training, or take any periodic tests/quizzes on your knowledge? Other than the BFR. Written and/or Oral examinations required under Part 135 Within each 12 calendar months each pilot working under Part 135 must complete specific training. The operator most even have a training program in place that provide training material, examinations, forms, instructions, and procedures for use in conducting the training and checks as required by Part 135 subpart H. The training can be done in-house or contracted out. Edited January 13, 2013 by iChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 I've heard of companies doing recurrent training (autos and what not) every so often, but do any of you have to to any "ground" recurrent training, or take any periodic tests/quizzes on your knowledge? Other than the BFR. 135 recurrent training requires minimum of an hour training, an hour flight check and ground training has to include 8 hours of approved syllabus subjects. Seems that review of aircraft systems and limitations is always included and whatever the FAA hot topic of the year.My recollection (I don't do "other commercial flying") is that 135 recurrent satisfies the BFR requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Oh yeah we don't do BFRs. It's an annual Part 135 eval. That annual eval counts towards a PPL BFR though (even fixed wing). Once you become a professional pilot, your BFR days are over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Are CFIs still making BFR endorsements? There has not been a "B" in the FR for about 8 years or so now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 My recollection (I don't do "other commercial flying") is that 135 recurrent satisfies the BFR requirement. Correct, 61.56 [d] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Are CFIs still making BFR endorsements? There has not been a "B" in the FR for about 8 years or so now. My endorsement doesn't have a "B", but the logbook entry made by the CFI on my last one does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) My endorsement doesn't have a "B", but the logbook entry made by the CFI on my last one does. Eagle, if your FR log book entry was from years ago when 61.56 addressed a BFR then it is correct. If it is for a recent FR then it shows that CFI is not current with regs. and endorsements. I understand that many of us and even the FAA uses slang and incorrect terms like BFR, License & Certified but training records, documents and log book entries should be correct. Attention to detail and correctness is a good thing in aviation and instruction. For Velo173, professional pilots do take flight reviews. Think about a utility pilot that may not get a new certificate or 135 check ride or operates Part 91 corporate or private business. I accomplished a FITS SBT Flight Review in April of 2011 and both the FAA and my peers consider myself a professional pilot! Flight Review requirements are part of staying current and never go away for someone wishing to act as PIC. Edited January 13, 2013 by Mikemv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1128 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 The all professional pilots do a flight review. The regulations cover what constitutes a flight review. Things like a certificate checkride, a chief flight instructor checkride, a Part 135 checkride, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Eagle, if your FR log book entry was from years ago when 61.56 addressed a BFR then it is correct. If it is for a recent FR then it shows that CFI is not current with regs. and endorsements. I understand that many of us and even the FAA uses slang and incorrect terms like BFR, License & Certified but training records, documents and log book entries should be correct. Attention to detail and correctness is a good thing in aviation and instruction. For Velo173, professional pilots do take flight reviews. Think about a utility pilot that may not get a new certificate or 135 check ride or operates Part 91 corporate or private business. I accomplished a FITS SBT Flight Review in April of 2011 and both the FAA and my peers consider myself a professional pilot! Flight Review requirements are part of staying current and never go away for someone wishing to act as PIC. I was referring to professional pilots (Part 135) who don't have the requirement of the Flight Review because of Part 61.56 d. Hence the addition of the B that I added to the FR. We don't do a BFR. We don't even do a FR. It's annual, and it's a "pilot proficiency check" that waives the requirement of a FR. Yes we still operate as PICs. I wasn't implying that CFIs, utility or anyone else getting paid to fly with a commercial certificate aren't professional pilots either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearly Retired Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 When I was working my Part-91 "corporate/personal" gig, the insurance company requirement (and common sense) dictated I take annual make/model specific recurrent training. We contracted with Lunsford. They provided comprehensive ground study material as well as the flight portion. The tests were actually tougher than the ones I took during my 135 Recurrent Training with PHI. The IP would also sign off my flight review at the same time. So Eagle5, the answer to your original question is "yes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_COYOTE Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 If you have a type rating your 61.58 ride counts as a flight review as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Are you guys reviewing/tested on basic stuff, like aerodynamics, weather, flight physiology, etc..., or is it just model specific flight manual/emergency proceedures stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) We are required to complete CTS training and each subject area has a test. Plus, we’re required to attend one safety seminar each year and most of those have a test to receive the certificate of completion. While we do refresher training every 6 months (factory day and Helistream for AS350 night touchdown autos) none require a written test….. At my part-time gig, even though I operate 91, the company has 135 pilots and aircraft so they train and track everyone per 135 with includes training with written tests….. Short story; as mentioned above, I attend factory training which, in the past, required it’s attendees to pass a written test to receive the completion certificate. On the maintenance side, two students who worked for an Arabic country failed the test so they returned home without the certificate. They were subsequently killed for failing. Once the factory found out they eliminated all written tests from their entire training department…… Edited January 13, 2013 by Spike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Are you guys reviewing/tested on basic stuff, like aerodynamics, weather, flight physiology, etc..., or is it just model specific flight manual/emergency proceedures stuff? Yes, no, maybe, sometime and never.We do online which does all the basic stuff, and recycles through the entire list every year.The formal recurrent ground syllbus sometimes has basic stuff, but it's heavily weighted on model specific systems. The company check airman each have particular interests that surface in the oral, once they've completed the company subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 We attend FTDA every 3 months at Western Helicopters and do our flight reviews down there as well, and then I do my CFI renewals when needed since I dont really have any primary students to meet the requirements for keeping my CFI current. We also do ground seasonally on tasks such as mountain flying, winter ops, W&B issues if we are doing a long line training, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Are CFIs still making BFR endorsements? There has not been a "B" in the FR for about 8 years or so now. We still do it every 24 months, that's 2 years, which is biennial, so what's wrong with calling the 61.56 flight review a BFR? With my last company we did 1 hour in the air, 1 hour on the ground every 6 months (I used to call it an insurance check). We mostly focused on emergency proceedures, but every so often he'd throw a few basic questions in there, like the difference between symetrical and asymetrical airfoils, or getting hypoxia at night, and stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Counterrotate Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 On the maintenance side, two students who worked for an Arabic country failed the test so they returned home without the certificate. They were subsequently killed for failing. Once the factory found out they eliminated all written tests from their entire training department…… A co-worker used to work abroad for the Pakistani government and told me that they were pencil whipping inspections on their aircraft. When confronted with this the chief mechanic just shrugged and said that it was "God's Will" if they lived or died. It just... baffles me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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