Rob1237051 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 http://defensetech.org/2013/02/19/sequestration-threatens-fatigued-helicopter-fleet/ I hope that recent selectees (if we even get to attend WOCS) will be given the option to transfer to another warrant MOS if there are no pilot slots available. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/26/republicans-accuse-obama-using-military-as-prop/ It doesn't even really seem like either side is going to negotiate. Last December most of the articles out mentioned last minute meetings. This time it's nothing but a blame game. MSNBC and CNN have similar articles for those of you that don't read Fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zion Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 What's the bill for training one Army Helo Pilot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electron_si Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 They say $1M plus but who knows. It's really hard to tally up all the training time, maintenance, books, etc... that go into a flight student. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperGumby Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Yup, last quote we got from the IPs here at Rucker is over a million bucks per student. I don't know if that only goes up to BWS since I would assume the price for 14 weeks of Blackhawks is different from 21 weeks of Apache. And as for Street to Seaters, you're not really a W-1 until MOS qualified and from what I understand, you just get separated from the Army altogether. The only ones I've heard who get to try for a Tech Warrant job if they don't make it through flight school for one reason or another are former enlisted NCOs who qualify to go to that Tech School for their previous MOS. And I think I've only heard one story about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electron_si Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I added up what we burned in JP8 during my 45 Uh-60 flight hours at Ft Rucker and that alone was $37,000+, just while I was sitting in the seat. Thats at $7.50/gal which is what we paid when we flew down to TLH in instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.am.Specialized Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 The questions I have... 1. What does this mean for street to seat applicants who are being boarded during FY13 (as in the 11-15 Mar board) 2. What does this mean for us if we get in? 3. What does this mean for our MOS security in the army? I guess I am uneducated and a bit confused by all the information going around about the cuts. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electron_si Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Honestly, no one knows what is going to happen. I'm a Full time national guard technician (DOD Civilian) and so i'm one of the ones included in this 22 day furlough and no one in our office has any idea of what is going to happen and its 3 days away. I really don't think anyone knows what is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester2138 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 We can start with cutting the F-35. The cost of merely building one F-35 could train 300 helicopter pilots (as in three-hundred). Which do you think is more useful to the military? Then we can move on to the many other unnecessary and slightly ridiculous spending sprees that Congress nearly forces on the military. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Plenty of tugs that need Warrant Officers to drive them! I always thought that would be a cool job. I wonder if they worry about getting enough boat hours??? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.am.Specialized Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Plenty of tugs that need Warrant Officers to drive them! I always thought that would be a cool job. I wonder if they worry about getting enough boat hours??? As much as I laughed at this, I am sure that they have equal struggles given the cost of fuel which, if you've owned a boat, you know is not cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperGumby Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 The most truthful answer to your questions is "who knows?" But if people were to pontificate on it here are my SWAG (Scientific Wild A$$ Guess) 1. Less money all around = less slots = tougher selection process. That being said, some parts of flight school are already paid for by the government per the contract with the civilian contractors (no matter how many students they get, whether it's 4 or 44, they get paid). Definitely though, selection standards/minimum requirements will increase. How soon? Don't know. For example, the age cut-off is one thing people keep guessing on whether it's going back down from 33 to 29 or 27. 2. Once you're in, you're in. There's a standard that flight school has to meet as per the syllabus. But shenanigans won't be tolerated as much and when people mess up and drop rates may go up (as opposed to people getting pushed through the pipeline). 3. MOS security is definitely the biggest issue here. As the Army transitions to a smaller size, they are going to shed pilots like crazy. Promotion rates from CW-2 (2yrs at WO-1 and 6yrs until eligible for CW-3) to CW-3 is pretty low, the last time I spoke to a CW-3/4. That means, you have one more look and if you're still not picked up for CW-3, you're out in six months. Another thing to think about: combat deployments are coming to a close so your flight hours will be a lot less than the aviators that were in during last ten years. So, your marketability in the civilian helicopter pilot world may not be as good. I don't have any experience in the civilian side but I think others in this forum can give a more accurate description of the job market. I hope this helps more than confuses. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electron_si Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 My son would probably think I was way cooler if I drove boats then flew helicopters. He loves boats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I wonder if they worry about getting enough boat hours??? There is coffee on my keyboard now, damnit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1237051 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I would have had a kick ass 151a packet. Hindsight is 20/20 unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperGumby Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Then we can move on to the many other unnecessary and slightly ridiculous spending sprees that Congress nearly forces on the military. *cough*like how the Army spent $5Bil on the ONE digital pattern that didn't really work as opposed to the Marines being able to come up with two patterns and Cayote Brown base color that work pretty well for just $300k*cough* http://www.military....e-uniforms.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1237051 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 2. Once you're in, you're in. If you know that for a fact then many of us would greatly appreciate it if you expanded upon that. Those of us that have heard the current contingency scenarios through second hand sidebars perhaps most of all... At what point are you considering someone to be "in?" Logging time in IERW, certainly, meets your other criteria. EDIT: Disregard, I just saw your disclaimer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperGumby Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 "Once you're in" I'm thinking, once you've been selected to come to basic training, you're in the pipeline. You already have money allotted to your SSN for training. Unless something causes a student to be disqualified from the flight program, once you sign your contract and have a ship out date, you're pretty much safe. Now, could there be exceptions, probably. Let me try to put it another way. Why put together a board, select candidates and have them sign a contract if they're not going to go through flight school. There will be less flight school students, yes. But I think that would be achieved by limiting how many are FQ-S on future boards. Lastly, like I said at the top of the post, it was a "best guess if I had to make one." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 My son would probably think I was way cooler if I drove boats then flew helicopters. He loves boats.We had a 60 guy switch over to boats. Flying never was his thing so he put in a packet. Heard he's a tug boat "captain" now. Hopefully he's happy and found his calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1237051 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Yeah sorry I saw your disclaimer after I posted. Your interpretation is my interpretation...Though not necessarily the only one floating around. Thanks DOD for not really planning for this eventuality that has been on the horizon for four months. Now, everyone is scrambling and there is more nonsense flying around than over at the Duffel Blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperGumby Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 The sad part about it is Mother Rucker *just* got the streamlining of flight school down from months to weeks. There's a few guys in our Apache class that selected aircraft two weeks prior to the course start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1237051 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Yeah all this push to eliminate the bubbles...And here they are again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 We can start with cutting the F-35. The cost of merely building one F-35 could train 300 helicopter pilots (as in three-hundred). Which do you think is more useful to the military? Then we can move on to the many other unnecessary and slightly ridiculous spending sprees that Congress nearly forces on the military. I'll bet Lockheed-Martin swings a bigger cat in congress than 300 Army aviators ever would. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akscott60 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Everyone just needs to prepare their backside for the big green weenie. Its coming. Remember this: the military can and will get around any "contract" you may have with them. Think you are safe because of FAC1 hour requirements? They will just get Rucker to lower the number. We are simply numbers and meat for the grinder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1237051 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Everyone just needs to prepare their backside for the big green weenie. Its coming. Remember this: the military can and will get around any "contract" you may have with them. Think you are safe because of FAC1 hour requirements? They will just get Rucker to lower the number. We are simply numbers and meat for the grinder. Yes and No. We're not talking contract like the "contract" you enter into with your Commander on a 7120. We're talking about a contract as in the contract with URS. It has to be scaled back before it's terminated and there are specific provisions for that. Edit: I agree with your opening statement 100%, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 It's hard to discuss this without violating OPSEC. Let's just say that it doesn't matter how sure you are something is going to happen, nothing is set in stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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