QUESTIONS! LORs, GPA, Essay

Maverick7 · August 6, 2014

I know these questions have probably been answered before on another thread out there but I need some information as soon as possible.

Here's a little background. Currently a senior in high school, graduation date in December. 17 years old, birthday is February 7th. Planning on applying through high school to flight school.

How long do LORs last before they expire? Do they expire? I've met with two CW4s (one ret.), Army Captain (ret.), and my state representative. They all agreed to write me an LOR in the future. Are these solid LOR's? Am I able to obtain the form now or do I need to wait until I turn 18?

My GPA is pretty low. Its a 2.5. Truth is I always flew under the radar with Bs and Cs and a D here and there. How do I justify this before the board? How bad is that?

How do I compose my essay? Some of the warrant officers I talked to said that they mostly just listed their achievements and what they have done to prepare themselves for the program while others took a very patriotic standpoint. I consider myself to be very patriotic, I come from a large military background. Is there any way I could see some essays that others have wrote just to get an idea of it?

Many thanks.

Cantankerously · August 6, 2014

Have you talked to a recruiter yet?

Creep0321 · August 6, 2014

Im no expert, but I feel like the low GPA, with only HS education may hurt. Have you taken the ASVAB? score, GT score? what about the SIFT? If you have ridiculously high scores there, that may help.

Ardo09203 · August 6, 2014

Have you taken the ASVAB yet?

Maverick7 · August 6, 2014

I have spoke to my recruiter. They gave me a practice asvab test and I didn't do that great. They said that they couldn't give me any of the forms until I turn 18. Right now I'm working on as much as I can like studying for the asvab and sift, meeting contacts for LORs, fitness, and my essay. I understand that my chances of getting accepted are slim. I would just like to take the opportunity since its the first one ill get. If I'm not accepted I plan on joining the guard and getting my degree, once my commitment is up I will re apply to active army WOFT.

StockTrader · August 6, 2014

I have spoke to my recruiter. They gave me a practice asvab test and I didn't do that great. They said that they couldn't give me any of the forms until I turn 18. Right now I'm working on as much as I can like studying for the asvab and sift, meeting contacts for LORs, fitness, and my essay. I understand that my chances of getting accepted are slim. I would just like to take the opportunity since its the first one ill get. If I'm not accepted I plan on joining the guard and getting my degree, once my commitment is up I will re apply to active army WOFT.

From what I am told, the board looks at the "whole person" concept. If you are lacking in one area such as GPA, you need others to offset that aka high GT/SIFT scores. Do you have any other things that demonstrate leadership like sports, clubs, volunteer activities. You will really need to stand out so a high APFT score will be crucial without a degree. It will take a while to finish the packet. Take it piece by piece and make it as strong as possible. I would highly recommend studying for the ASVAB and SIFT especially since those scores stick for a while. ASVAB is 2 years I believe but SIFT is for life if you pass.

Maverick7 · August 6, 2014

I played football from 6th to 9th grade. I wrestled my freshman and sophomore year. I wrestled varsity my freshman year. I've been in FBLA all four years of high school. I was in varsity club my freshman year. All throughout my high school career I've held 2 jobs and 3 jobs during the summers. I began taking rotary wing flight lessons last fall. I don't have my PPL I've just been taking one every time I can save up.

Creep0321 · August 6, 2014

I wouldn't really mention the football or wrestling, stoping that early in HS just shows you can't or don't want to finish something, better off focusing on the FBLA (whatever that is) and the jobs, depending on what they are. Possibly seek a LOR form an employer as well.

UH60L-IP · August 6, 2014

Here is a simple reality check - I have never been a board member but I instruct the people they have selected every day.

18 year old high school to flight school students are extremely rare - not unheard of, but very rare. When they come through they really stood out. Things like 4.0 grades, top of class, class president, honors, and quite often completed some college during their high school years. What have you done to stand out to that extent? LOR's can help dress up a turd (not saying you are one) but the fact is everyone can still recognize a turd.

Based only upon what you say, you are going to have a difficult time finding a recruiter to take up your case. They don't like doing warrant packets for the most part anyway and if you don't have anything to offer beyond what every other person they enlist as a Private can offer, how are you going to convince them to help you become an officer?

I rarely recommend that someone enlist at the urging of a recruiter, especially since that is just the recruiter's default course of action. For an 18 year old with below average grades, a mediocre ASVAB, and middle of the road performance in all regards, enlisting to get real experience and shining your resume is not a bad road. In fact, the majority of warrants have taken it.

You find this issue to be urgent and have elected to use that excuse to start a new thread rather than researching the readily available information on the forum. That says something about motivation right there. This is not an easy route and will not be handed to you. I would never quash dreams, but I will tell you that experience has shown that you may not yet be prepared to tackle this dream.

USAR153D · August 6, 2014

I know these questions have probably been answered before on another thread out there but I need some information as soon as possible.

Here's a little background. Currently a senior in high school, graduation date in December. 17 years old, birthday is February 7th. Planning on applying through high school to flight school.

How long do LORs last before they expire? Do they expire? I've met with two CW4s (one ret.), Army Captain (ret.), and my state representative. They all agreed to write me an LOR in the future. Are these solid LOR's? Am I able to obtain the form now or do I need to wait until I turn 18?

My GPA is pretty low. Its a 2.5. Truth is I always flew under the radar with Bs and Cs and a D here and there. How do I justify this before the board? How bad is that?

How do I compose my essay? Some of the warrant officers I talked to said that they mostly just listed their achievements and what they have done to prepare themselves for the program while others took a very patriotic standpoint. I consider myself to be very patriotic, I come from a large military background. Is there any way I could see some essays that others have wrote just to get an idea of it?

Many thanks.

Hey bud, although I'm impressed that you have the interest in this endeavor so early on (wish I had when I was your age), if you look at the stats of the selectees on this forum, I'd be shocked if you found one with just a HS education and no prior-military experience.

You mentioned the ARNG or USAR option to attend college, and gain a little bit of military experience. I think that's an excellent choice. They'll pay for your schooling and you'll kill two birds with one stone. You have the upper hand of knowing you want to go WOFT already, so you can do everything within your power and budget to build a resume towards that.

The sky is your limit. I had people laughing at me (including some very close to me) when I told them that I wanted to pursue becoming a pilot in the USAR at 28 years of age. Within 3 months I had my package together, was boarded and selected. Now, I'm having a little chuckle myself.

Do yourself a favor, enlist into something aviation related mech, operations etc. so at least you'll already be in an aviation unit and be familiar with such. Network your butt off. Oh, and pick up your damn grades, son!

Just my .02 as a selectee of July's board. Take from it what you will. Best of luck to you.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Marine4WOFT

Ardo09203 · August 6, 2014

I have spoke to my recruiter. They gave me a practice asvab test and I didn't do that great. They said that they couldn't give me any of the forms until I turn 18. Right now I'm working on as much as I can like studying for the asvab and sift, meeting contacts for LORs, fitness, and my essay. I understand that my chances of getting accepted are slim. I would just like to take the opportunity since its the first one ill get. If I'm not accepted I plan on joining the guard and getting my degree, once my commitment is up I will re apply to active army WOFT.

ONE STEP AT A TIME.

If you are any thing like me, you won't get very far attacking everything at once. I tried to do everything at once, and got no where. First step is the ASVAB. Study like crazy for it. I have ASVAB for dummies, and the "ARCO" book that I'll give you if you want them .Take as many practice test as you can. Watch all of the YouTube study and test taking tips. Just be more than prepared. Shoot for a 99/160GT (Aceing it), but the board will want to see something along the lines of a 90/120+, to offset your "low" GPA.

Next is SIFT, don't even worry about this until you have passed the ASVAB. Again study like crazy. Since the SIFT has a math portion, you will have a little jump from all of the ASVAB studying. Study the AFAST flash cards on Cram.com, and read the FAA rotorcraft handbook (especially the first 3 chapters). Practice the hidden figures and simple shapes, this is based on speed, and can only be improved with practice. I suggest turning the practice test in the MFAT for dummies book, into flash cards.

The only thing I would recommend doing simultaneously with those two task is PT. DO NOT, and I repeat DO NOT, spend all of your time in the gym. Not that going to the gym is a bad thing, it just that there is no gym during your AFPT test. Push-Ups and Sit-Ups Multiple times a day, and of course RUN, and I mean RUN like FOREST. 80% of ARMY personal say the run this their hardest task for PT. You will need a 300, or very close to it, to turn their attention away from your "low" GPA, age, and just being out of high school. Show them that you are dedicated and WILL be a pilot. Notice I said WILL and not "plan to be".

Once you have an outstanding ASVAB score, and 65+ SIFT score, and are a PT stud. You are ready to start networking. This will probably be the first things other aviators will ask you about when you tell them you are working to become a pilot. You mention that you have a family military background. I'd start networking there. See if someone can get you on a base with a flight line, and in touch with some current aviators. Your conversation should follow the lines of "I want to become an Army Aviator, what are some suggestions you can offer to someone my age who is dedicated to achieving this goal". NOT "I need an LoR for my packet". From what I understand is most aviators are generally laid back and always willing to help a dedicated person out.

If I were you, I'd write 3 essays. Hell, write 5, take different approaches with them. Try highlighting your burning desire to be a pilot, your strengths and weaknesses, and your patriotism. Then get with myself, or others who I'm sure would be willing to help you out, and try to consolidate them into the perfect essay. In addition to your essay, you will want to write a Biography as well. This will help when connections you make are introducing you to others.

If I were you, I'd get into college as soon as you graduate. Just being in college (with good grades mind you). Will help to show that you are dedicated to improving yourself.

My last piece of advice is to keep trying. Even if you don't make it the first, second or third time. Keep trying. Say it take 3 years to get selected. You'll only be 21, and at least you'll have a college degree (at least an associates).

Maverick7 · August 6, 2014

Thanks for that great advice. I understand that my stats are very far from perfect. I understand that the chances of me getting accepted are very slim to none. My plan if I am not accepted out of high school, I will join the national guard and attend my local university and obtain a 4 year bachelor degree in aviation maintenance, specializing in helicopters. With the remaining two years of my commitment to the guard I will use my GI bill to attend a flight school to get my CFII. After completing college and obtaining my pilots license. I will be far more competitive than I am now. Thank you Ardo for that advice, I really needed a plan of attack.

With that being said, can you guys answer the questions I have asked?

Lindsey · August 6, 2014

Utilize the search feature of this forum.

UH60L-IP · August 6, 2014

I'll answer. Do not get your LORs until it is time to do so. Yes, they expire - I forget how long off the top of my head but you want them to be fresh anyway.

How do you justify B & Cs and a 2.5 GPA? Little you say will change that. It speaks for itself. I know, when you're earning those grades you don't consider the consequences. Elapsed time doing something that will show improvement is the only way.

Highly unlikely anyone is going to give you a copy of their essay at this point. You'd have to be much further in the process to even have that considered, if then. The essay is yours and to be written the way you desire - that's kind of the point. Go from the standpoint you choose. Either it contains the right elements or it doesn't. Go with the way you think is right as far as content - at least then it will be passionate and not generic.

And yes, utilize the search feature - you'll get many more answers than just the few people willing to entertain you right now.

magnus017 · August 7, 2014

Thanks for that great advice. I understand that my stats are very far from perfect. I understand that the chances of me getting accepted are very slim to none. My plan if I am not accepted out of high school, I will join the national guard and attend my local university and obtain a 4 year bachelor degree in aviation maintenance, specializing in helicopters. With the remaining two years of my commitment to the guard I will use my GI bill to attend a flight school to get my CFII. After completing college and obtaining my pilots license. I will be far more competitive than I am now. Thank you Ardo for that advice, I really needed a plan of attack.

With that being said, can you guys answer the questions I have asked?

Please please PLEASE keep in mind. Joining a reserve or national guard component has great education benefits, but 100% of your school will NOT be covered. In the Army and Air Force side of the house (guard and reserve) you get tuition assistance up to $250 per credit hour for a maximum of $4500 a year (that comes out to 18 credit hours). You can combine this with the Selected Reserve GI Bill (about $340 last time I checked) for every month you are enrolled in school full time (greater than 12 credit hours per semester for undergrad). This will not cover all of your school. The reserves do not get the "Post 9/11 GI bill" like the active duty folks unless you have deployed, and even then its only a percentage. To get 100% of the Post 9/11 GI Bill you must serve at least full years of active duty (and no last time I checked that didn't count training). The post 9/11 covers damn close to 100$ of your tuition cost plus E5 with dependents BAH. The post 9/11 is a much better deal than the reserve benefits for obvious reasons.

Do not get sucked into the mentality of "meh one weekend a month two weeks a year and all my school is paid for!" Trust me, I've been there, recruiters lie (or simply have no idea), and I got very little help from the good ole USMC paying for my school.

(P.S. the Marine reserves and Navy reserves offer ZERO tuition assistance)

Edit: You also have a limit on how many months you can use the Selected Eeserve and Post 911 GI Bill. I think it comes out to about 10 semesters but that's just a guess.

magnus017 · August 7, 2014

One more bonus reservist tip. Unless you have been activated (title 10 or deployment or something like that) most states will not actually recognize you as a "veteran" for financial aid purposes. Claiming veteran status on your financial aid forms can yield you a very large amount of financial aid, but they do not recognize reservists as legitimate military members. How screwed up is that? Hahaha.

Ardo09203 · August 7, 2014

Depending on what state you are in, your state's National Guard may offer tuition exemption. In Louisiana we may attend any state university (read: LSU even) and are exempt from tuition. We are however still liable for all books and fees.

Maverick7 · August 7, 2014

I live in Illinois, my guard recruiter claimed that they IL National Guard does pay 100% tuition seperate from the GI Bill. He said I would get 100% tuition plus $375 a month for being a student. Honestly the one weekend a month is my least favorite thing about it. I always pictured my military service as full time.

A-aron · August 7, 2014

Look into it on your own and don't just listen to the recruiter.

NCOtoWO · August 7, 2014

As a Warrant Officer you will be expected to resource.

http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/

Move out, draw fire.

Jester2138 · August 7, 2014

Dang if it was that easy I'd already be a super leet operator tactical Nightstalker with flames painted on my facemask instead of at least 1.5 years from applying even after knowing what I wanted to do 4 years ago when I was a freshmen in college

Ardo09203 · August 7, 2014

Dang if it was that easy I'd already be a super leet operator tactical Nightstalker with flames painted on my facemask instead of at least 1.5 years from applying even after knowing what I wanted to do 4 years ago when I was a freshmen in college

Just out of curiosity, what's taking 1.5 years?

Jester2138 · August 9, 2014

Just out of curiosity, what's taking 1.5 years?

Several things. The two biggest, though, are 1) building a packet that makes up for the fact that I have zero experience relevant to the military and flying helicopters and 2) building familial support which I currently do not have but want.

Btw I see you're a fellow Louisianian. My location says Manhattan but I'm actually a NOLA native and just moved back here after graduating from a school in Manhattan. I've been thinking about whether the LA guard makes more sense for me and my ultimate life goals. Too bad one has to enlist first.