Anyone Else out there fed up with not being able to start a career in Helicopter Aviation?

[pilot#476398]

In the October 2013 issue of Rotorcraft Pro, Lyn Burks, who has much more of an over view than this humble scribe, was asked what he sees as the greatest challenge facing the helicopter industry today. His reply:

"I know it has become a cliche, but I still believe it is the looming threat of a helicopter pilot shortage. Many thought the Vietnam era pilots - our biggest generation of pilots - would mostly be out by now as they hit their early to mid 60's. With better health and poor 401(K) performance, they are sticking around longer than projected. However, with the inevitable departure of that generation, increasing global demand for helicopters in emerging markets, and a historical reduction in trained pilots, it is not a matter of if a shortage will come, but when."

 

 

I don't think there are as many Vietnam guys out there as "pilot shortage" believers think. Even then, its not like they would all suddenly quit on the same day, or month,...or even year! It would be gradual and therefore less noticable. It certainly wouldn't help the surplus of low timers trying to get started, or out of teaching.

Besides, won't the Iraq and Afganistan pilots be taking over commercial aviation soon?

[Flying Pig]

^The Iraq and Afghanistan pilots have been getting out for the past 10 years.

[Francis Meyrick]

yep-yep.

In the Gulf, as far as I can see, civilian new-hires well out number Military new-hires.

 

If Comrade Oh-Blah-Ma has his appeasing, gormless, ignoring Historical Realities' way, then you may see that Military Pilot numerical decline continue. Budget battles. Got to reward your dumb but loyal voters. "Transfer of wealth". (read: un-earned freebies, destruction of wealth, and handing it across to unproductive elements where it gets frittered away as so much pocket money)

 

The Military knows how to pick good guys. They tend to be really, really "solid" guys, and are shoe ins for 2 crew operations. (Black Hawk time into S76, AW 139) Against that, many have little solo time in light ships. And often enough actually not that much flight time, for the time they have served. Some say that trend is getting worse.

 

R-22 pilots used to be scorned and mocked, but over the years, they have more than proven themselves. And turned out to be damn good sticks. If you can fly an R-22 well, and handle that limited, quirky power, you have no problem transitioning to, say, a Bell 206. The other way, 2-crew Blackhawk down to a single slot Bell 206, isn't so easy.

 

So the US hiring market I'd say is no longer even remotely primarily driven by Military chaps.

 

That's just my personal opinion, and you are welcome to disagree.

 

I'm sure somebody will....

 

[Wally]

 

I don't think there are as many Vietnam guys out there as "pilot shortage" believers think. Even then, its not like they would all suddenly quit on the same day, or month,...or even year! It would be gradual and therefore less noticable. It certainly wouldn't help the surplus of low timers trying to get started, or out of teaching.

Besides, won't the Iraq and Afganistan pilots be taking over commercial aviation soon?

 

When I came to my present employer. more than half the pilots were Vietnam era, and not all were Vietnam vets.

13 years later, my guess is that we're no more than a quarter of this pilot pool. I agree a gradual diminishing will and has been occurring. This is a finite process, however and when the Vietnam era population hits 65 -70, pilots of that era will be exceptional. I am sixty-four and a half...

[Flying Pig]

I was not a military pilot, but with the draw downs and the wars "ending" ( whatever that means ) I think military pilots entering the military presently will be back to the era of getting out with a few hundred hours if they don't make it a career. I spent 8 yrs in the military and have several friends who were mil pilots in the 90s. The interesting thing about them is that none of them are pilots in civilian life.

 

Again, my outsider impression of military aviation

Edited February 15, 2014 by Flying Pig

[aeroscout]

High time military helo pilots are only produced during wartime, or over a long career. They will not represent a flooding of the markets during a short interval. More like a trickle over time. That has been my observation.

[apacheguy]

^The Iraq and Afghanistan pilots have been getting out for the past 10 years.

Yes, we're getting out and we got you surrounded. Seriously though, I'm retiring this Fall and looking for a civilian flying job on the east coast. Seems like there's a ton of open jobs for pilots who have a few thousand hours. Then again there's not a lot of hiring announcements for many jobs that I would think would be open and that I'd like to apply for. At least Walmart has guaranteed me a job...

[Flying Pig]

Yeah but you probably done have a "Walmart transition". That's hard to get. The VA probably has a course.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Flying Pig

[pilot#476398]

Yeah but you probably done have a "Walmart transition". That's hard to get. The VA probably has a course.

 

I believe ULA has an internship set up with them for recent graduates! Low blow, but I just couldn't resist!

[helonorth]

 

I believe ULA has an internship set up with them for recent graduates! Low blow, but I just couldn't resist!

You beat me to it! It's only $27,000 and you have to do it in a Longranger.

[Pohi]

I can't imagine how much it cost to get the transition into medium

 

 

Or heavy ships

 

Edited February 16, 2014 by Pohi

[jMendez86]

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not upset about what has happened to me and just about everyone else because of the economy, such is life. I am merely trying to shed light on many young pilots careers... or lack of career due to the lies we were fed and the over lending for flight training to young people from financial institutions.

I don't know about any of the rest of you and maybe I'm just alone in this thought, but I was told that the need for Helicopter pilots was great and it was a wide open job market. So without hesitation I did everything in my power to get into flight school, because it has always been such a passion of mine! What I wasn't told unfortunately is that their was a shortage of "experienced" (1000 hours of more)pilots and that is all any company wanted to hire, with good reasoning. I have had my Helicopter CFII for 3 years now which I procured through a Professional Pilot Program at an accredited Flight School. I haven't climbed into a single cockpit since the day I took my final Check Ride for my CFII. My flight school closed it's doors the week after I finished my program. I received my flight training through a loan, a very sizable loan as many of you out there I'm sure have done as well. I, like many pilots out there are now struggling just to get by in our day to day lives financially. I am still working the same job (which pays practically nothing) as I did while attending flight school, but now with a $60,000 flight school bill to pay off. I have sent in close to 100 resumes to flight schools and flight employers all over the country, but do to my low hour time and experience level I haven't been considered for one. I have done everything in my power to come up with ideas to get into the aviation business, but to no avail. I have been hit with a flight school bill that no one could possibly be expected to afford without a reasonably high paying job.

What I am trying to get at here is that it is unfortunate for so many pilots out there to be in such a situation as I am. I can't afford to seek more flight training to build hours due to the cost of paying off my loans for my original training and I can't get hired by a company to make more money due to my low hour level. A rock and a hard place is where I have found myself and it seems to be getting very crowded with the amount of people being placed here beside me.

I wish there was a way that Flight Schools, Aviation Employers, Insurance Companies, Pilots could all figure out some way to help all those out there in desperate need of a break. It is just a real tough situation from one end to the other and in an industry as booming as aviation you would think that a pilot who went to school and received all licensing and certifications he/she needed that he/she would be able to find a job.

If you are a struggling pilot that also can't seem to get their career off the ground in aviation, please share your story.

 

 

Yeah I was honestly sick of all the hoops that I had to go through just to find work. When I was unemployed last year, I thought I was going to have to start getting unemployment, which is insane for someone who is not used to living hand to mouth. Last year when I was looking for work, I finally was able to get the job i wanted when I came across hound.com. I thought I was going to have to look for work for another few months. When I finally came across hound, it was the best option for finding jobs in Los Angeles.

[crazyhorse1975]

It is what it is man, from an investment perspective, investing any money in flight training would be better spent at a casino, on the other side, if your actually considering trying to make a living flying a Helicopter, without the qualifications it will simply be a pipe dream.

[Logo11]

Wow, reading these posts is depressing. Im getting out of the army in less than a year and the plan was to use my GI Bill to go to flight school. Is it even worth it or am I wasting my time? Im a Green Beret, I have a BA in History from a well known school, a TS/SCI Clearance and Ive taught English in China, will any of these count for anything? I know Ill have to do instructor time and that's fine, all I want is to fly helicopters (in the GOM if possible) and not live in utter poverty. Possible?

[Francis Meyrick]

Possible? Possible? Well, Heck, yeah.

I'm a low-life helicopter jockey. And living the (low) Life. I posted in this column before, up-a-bit, December 25, 2013. I'm the guy with the problematic alternative uniform. (The hat, brother, the hat). I spent ten years flying in the GOM, and now Aero-Medical driver in the great State of Texas. I have zero regrets, and that includes the poverty, the worry, and the frustration. And wondering which bridge in London I was going to sleep under. I always wanted to fly... and, guess what, still flying. I've said it before, there's thousands of little blighter helicopter rickshaw pullers around. Millions of 'em.

It takes persistence. Courage. Follow the dream. A fall back source of income. Drive a truck. Teach English to funny little people. (hell, with my accent, my buddies say I still need to learn English) (American) (here's a scribble about...that ) Serve in a bar. Clean sewers. Shuffle bits of paper from one side of the desk to the other. Answer the phone. Be nice and polite to ignorant customers who deserved a particularly swift kick in the vitals... I've done all those things. And more. But always wanted to fly. Still do. Mightily. If I had a dollar for every nay-sayer, prophet of doom, depressed, alcoholic, I'm-giving-up and I'm-never-going-to-play again, funereal type undertaker, I'd be in beer for a life time.

Many an interviewer will like your military resume. It implies grit, discipline, 'cos the military don't put up with too much... too much... flower power? Excuses? Union types?

 

I believe there is a certain type of individual, with a certain messed up genome, limited IQ, given to dreams and musings, who will NEVER be happy, unless.... he can sniff in those Jet A fumes in the morning, pull pitch, and feel those blades ah-slappin' time.

 

Rock on, dreamer!

 

[Logo11]

Thanks for the input Francis, Ill keep putting one foot in front of the other.

[r22butters]

I remember this thread,...ahhhh,...fun times!

 

Its been almost 4 years since it started, I wonder what ever happened to Chris?

[Francis Meyrick]

Butters, dammit, borrow my WD40, would ya?

 

I can hear your wheelchair creaking...

 

[Spike]

Wow, reading these posts is depressing. Im getting out of the army in less than a year and the plan was to use my GI Bill to go to flight school. Is it even worth it or am I wasting my time? Im a Green Beret, I have a BA in History from a well known school, a TS/SCI Clearance and Ive taught English in China, will any of these count for anything? I know Ill have to do instructor time and that's fine, all I want is to fly helicopters (in the GOM if possible) and not live in utter poverty. Possible?

This business is what you make of it. And, while your previous accomplishments are impressive, they don’t directly relate unless you make it so.........

 

With regards to the livelihood aspect, here are my real facts…… Prior to my helicopter career in the early 90’s, I was a 31 year old manufacturer laborer with a high school diploma making roughly 40K a year with basic benefits while doing a job I didn’t want……….Today, I fly for a government service making approximately 200K with pay and benefits……

 

What you should understand is; there is a path. That path is not determined by anyone other than you. That is, if you listen to the blind, then you should already know the outcome……..

 

PM me if you have any questions.......

Edited February 16, 2015 by Spike

[Flying Pig]

You'll find that your past accomplishments really don't mean anything until you have come to stand on your own as a pilot. 2000+ with some solid turbine helicopter time. Your degree...... Not much weight at al even when you "arrive". Green beret.... That got you the GI Bill. You probably speak Chinese?? That could open a cfi job maybe. It's not a dismal path.... It's just that it rarely discriminates. For the most part everyone takes the same road.

[RagMan]

Just buck up and do it damnit! If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way to make it succeed. Work hard, play harder, and fly the hardest!

[bentstrider83]

This thread may sound disappointing at first, but then I realize it's better for me to work the small stuff first(private w/instrument) and then decide whether or not to take it to the next level.

While I have a decent, home-every-day, trucking job where I am right now, the thing that makes the task daunting is potentially having to travel from here in Clovis out to Albuquerque every other week for a few hours of stick time.
(about a 2.5-3hour trip each way depending on road conditions and troopers hiding in the grass, lol)

I could move to say, some place like Oregon where there seems to be more flight schools that cater to the rotary wing crowd.
But then I'll have to worry about possibly taking a pay cut and having the potential for "added funds" be gone for good.

[Goldy]

This post should probably be pinned to the forum. It's a good mix of depressing and success stories, I wish every wanna be CFI would at least read thru this to see what they are in for.

 

Whatever you do,

 

Fly safe!

Goldy

[r22butters]

I don't know?

 

...I think I'd rather just faaaade awaaaay!

Edited March 20, 2015 by r22butters