CH-47 vs. AH-64

[Velocity173]

I flew CH-46's in the Marine Corps, and we could out-maneuver and out-fly the Cobras of the era, except in a dive.

 

I'd like to see an Air Combat Maneuvering contest between a 47 and a 64.

ACM? Since when does the Army do ACM. 64s used to do it back in the 80's but those days are over. Nobody is doing ACM anymore. Plus how can you compare a 47 to a 64 when a 47 shoots either to the sides or behind. Trying to position a 47 for a "kill" area would be interesting at best.

[superstallion6113]

There I was. 50 feet and 200kts. In a 47F, inverted with a sling load. One head turning one head burning. You know how I knew I was inverted? My air medals were dangling in my face.

Edited June 1, 2013 by superstallion6113

[Hotdogs]

ACM? Since when does the Army do ACM. 64s used to do it back in the 80's but those days are over. Nobody is doing ACM anymore. Plus how can you compare a 47 to a 64 when a 47 shoots either to the sides or behind. Trying to position a 47 for a "kill" area would be interesting at best.

 

Cobras and Hueys do DACM a couple times a year in the Marines and usually with other 53s or 46s. Wouldn't surprise me if they did it back then either.

[Velocity173]

 

Cobras and Hueys do DACM a couple times a year in the Marines and usually with other 53s or 46s. Wouldn't surprise me if they did it back then either.

Well how do you guys determine who wins with no gun tape? Dog fighting with MILES gear? If I'm a gunner on a Huey, as soon as I hear "fight's on," I'd say "Yep, guns kill knock it off, we win." Of course you have the whole non aerobatic thing so it would be just some banks, climbs, and descents.

[Hotdogs]

Well how do you guys determine who wins with no gun tape? Dog fighting with MILES gear? If I'm a gunner on a Huey, as soon as I hear "fight's on," I'd say "Yep, guns kill knock it off, we win." Of course you have the whole non aerobatic thing so it would be just some banks, climbs, and descents.

 

Its not exactly as simple as you would think, you fly the absolute crap out of your aircraft, pretty much max performance the entire time. There is no gun tape or miles gear and it's a scripted evolution with multiple resets and it varies on the TMS involved. There are some unusual flight profiles that go on for helicopters, pretty large angles of bank, nose attitude, and low airspeed. It's also It's an exposure/opportunity thing for most unless you goto WTI where they have a dedicated week with FW vs RW sets as well to make instructors. Again, not something we do a whole lot, and operationally not really relevant due the FW that are usually in the area.

[Yamer]

Please next topic Chevy vs. Ford

that would be just like this one, crappychevy vs awesome ford.... crappy 47 vs awesome 64

[stearmann4]

I don't really understand this obsession with speed in helicopters.

Speed doesn't mean much, even when we can do 140KIAS, we still fly 110GS. There's a big plaque over the door in the company bar; "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I fear no evil, because I fly the biggest, baddest, meanest mother f*cker in the whole damned valley...",

 

We can fly 5 hours un-refueled, hover OGE at 10,000', simultaneously unload 16,000 rounds of 7.62 a minute and 2,000 rounds of .50...while fast-roping 20 pipe hitters.

 

It all depends on what type of flying you want to do.

 

Mike-

[Lindsey]

Speed doesn't mean much, even when we can do 140KIAS, we still fly 110GS. There's a big plaque over the door in the company bar; "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I fear no evil, because I fly the biggest, baddest, meanest mother f*cker in the whole damned valley...",

 

We can fly 5 hours un-refueled, hover OGE at 10,000', simultaneously unload 16,000 rounds of 7.62 a minute and 2,000 rounds of .50...while fast-roping 20 pipe hitters.

 

It all depends on what type of flying you want to do.

 

Mike-

Ha, Mike. The 160th is kind of the exception...with regard to these "arguments." I mean, sh*t, you guys can make the 47 look sexy. That's quite a feat, I'd say. That said, my preference is still for smaller agile helicopters.

[SemperGumby]

I don't think they sent 47s to kick off the first Iraq war. Nobody said "Hey, let's send Chinooks to take out those radar sites." On the same token, I don't think we use 64s or 58s to deliver sling loads these days. It's like using a Mustang to be a school bus, it just doesn't work that way.

[stearmann4]

Actually, a flight of USAF MH-53Js lead the AH-64As to the targets because the Apache's didn't have a tenable radar.

 

Mike-

[stearmann4]

Ha, Mike. The 160th is kind of the exception...with regard to these "arguments." I mean, sh*t, you guys can make the 47 look sexy. That's quite a feat, I'd say. That said, my preference is still for smaller agile helicopters.

I fully believe I'll see you hanging off a Kiowa skid unloading your M-4 on someone someday:o)

[Velocity173]

I fully believe I'll see you hanging off a Kiowa skid unloading your M-4 on someone someday:o)

She better not. The kick alone from the M-4 will send the KW out of trim. Not to mention it would probably slow the aircraft a few knots. When you're traveling at 80 kts, every knot matters.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Velocity173

[akscott60]

Hell yea it does. Shooting the 50 knocks us out of trim.

[Lindsey]

She better not. The kick alone from the M-4 will send the KW out of trim. Not to mention it would probably slow the aircraft a few knots. When you're traveling at 80 kts, every knot matters.

But see, that sh*t's my flavor. If you lean forward in the R22, it speeds up almost immediately.

[Fliesbecauseracecar]

I think if you want to really know, land them both at the same civilian airport for a fuel stop cross country. One is the favorite of the FBO owner (that big beast takes a lot of Jet A, the other has a had crowd and all the questions.

 

So common, that we designate the junior front seater to play tour guide during mission planning, can be immediately trumped by senior backseater dependent on quality of tourists.

[SBuzzkill]

Chinook and Apache, cross country, same airport...

 

The Chinook must have parts to fix your Apache.

Edited June 16, 2013 by SBuzzkill

[Fliesbecauseracecar]

Chinook and Apache, cross country, same airport...

 

The Chinook must have parts to fix your Apache.

Not just likely, almost a certainty, along with our crew chiefs. Its like a supermodel, sexy, incredibly high maintenance, requires tons of attention to function properly and everyone wants one of their own.

[Yamer]

great analogy. best one ive heard so far lol

[copter doctor]

Yamer, on this I must agree. Great analogy. Except I want an AH-6.

[SemperGumby]

...being inside said super model isn't as fun with a bag on.

 

Calm down, I'm talking about the bag phase of flight school.

[2ndGen]

Ha, Mike. The 160th is kind of the exception...with regard to these "arguments." I mean, sh*t, you guys can make the 47 look sexy. That's quite a feat, I'd say. That said, my preference is still for smaller agile helicopters.

 

Agility lies in the guy with the cyclic in his hands I think I've seen some amazing things from the 47s in AStan.....

[Yamer]

baaaaahahahahaha

[revaequitas]

Lol great responses, I love it lol.

 

I'd choose the because of the mission/role