First Duty Assignment Questions

[Justine]

Thanks for the advice. What I have learned in my few years is NOT to piss of your branch manager. Easier in my previous branch because I am a CPT with another CPT as my branch manager. With my new branch, I have an LTC as a branch manager. And I DEFINITELY don't want to piss him off. I don't yet have an RFO to Campbell and if I don't continue to make a good impression on him, he'd send me to the opposite side of the world from my husband. Believe me, this is how branch managers are. Likewise, I have entertained placing a phone call to the CW5 aviation branch manager. For the same reasons, I have decided against that.

 

Usually in TRADOC (correct me if I'm wrong) when it comes time for assignments, they ask if there is anyone with any special circumstances (such as EFMP or MACP). MACP may or may not get my husband to Stewart/Hunter. MACP will definitely get my husband to Campbell. The lesser of two evils.

 

BTW, why did you all decide warrant instead of officer? I advised my husband (who was completely qualified for OCS) to go warrant. I would rather he fly which is his passion than the complete and utter bullshit of being an officer like me. Property accountability, staff call, training meetings, QTB, USR, FLIPLs, picking up soldiers in the middle of the night from the MP station and making the call to your BC that your soldier f*cked up, domestics, soldiers popping hot, Art 15s, chapters... this is the life of a company commander (no matter what branch.) Just curious as to why you all made the decision for warrant.

 

 

 

 

 

At this point career progression as commissioned might be 'easier'

[Velocity173]

 

Yeah. I was emailing my branch manager once about my next assignment and made a joke that he didn't find funny. He cut off the conversation and said I'd be going to Drum.

Lol! I did the same thing but he just laughed it off. I said after 4 yrs of a hard labor as a Rucker IP I should get a good TRADOC assigment. I wanted Belvour or Benning and he laughed. "Yeah you're gonna be deploying, or going overseas. Take your pick." I figured if I was going to leave the country I might as well get tax free and combat pay for it.

[MissLibertyBelle]

 

At this point career progression as commissioned might be 'easier'

 

I have been commissioned for the past four years. My husband is also qualified to be commissioned. I love him too much to allow him to be subject to "officer business." Trust me, I know. Commissioned officers are more trouble than they (we) are worth because there are way too many of us (not that I want to be classified this way) that are TOXIC LEADERS in the army. Warrants are the middle ground that can actually make a decision that save SOLDIER lives. CPTs like me and my peers only give orders (that we don't understand) that KILL SOLDIERS. It is a WARRANTS job to stand up to me (a commissioned officer) and convince me that I am wrong in sending a team, a squad, a platoon, a tank, a helicopter to their deaths.

[MissLibertyBelle]

"Easier" ... you really have to think about that. I know so so so god damn many corrupt officers (especially at the O4, O5, O6, and star levels.) Doesn't take much research too see how many OFFICERS are being relieved thru out all branches of the military (army, navy, air force, marines.)

 

Right now, warrants are upholding their standards a hell of a lot better than commissioned officers.

[MissLibertyBelle]

Anyone that wants have an opinion/expectation of commissioned officers having it "easier," I am truly open to sharing the nightmare I experienced in which 6 Soldiers and 6 Families have paid the ultimate sacrifice.

[MissLibertyBelle]

You all need to understand that even though I may be higher ranking (me in this scenario, but likely your boss), if the mission is unnecessarily jeopardizing lives, it is your DUTY to stand up and do something about it.

[Rob1237051]

I think he was referring to the comparative selection rates between CPT/CW3. It's a pity that your personal experiences within your past and current chain of commands have been so negative.

[UH60L-IP]

CPTs like me and my peers only give orders (that we don't understand) that KILL SOLDIERS. It is a WARRANTS job to stand up to me (a commissioned officer) and convince me that I am wrong in sending a team, a squad, a platoon, a tank, a helicopter to their deaths.

 

While I am sympathetic to many of your points, and I agree that warrants are a different breed, you do understand that we (at least CW2 and beyond) have the exact same commission as you, right? We are neither more or less commissioned that a CPT, MAJ, etc. A WO1 is the only true "warrant" officer. CW2-CW5 are commissioned in the same manner as a RLO.

 

But I do agree, especially because we have the same commission, that us warrants have the ability and should stand up to the traditional leadership when necessary.

[d10]

Good luck with that.

[Joe_P148]

 

I have been commissioned for the past four years. My husband is also qualified to be commissioned. I love him too much to allow him to be subject to "officer business." Trust me, I know. Commissioned officers are more trouble than they (we) are worth because there are way too many of us (not that I want to be classified this way) that are TOXIC LEADERS in the army. Warrants are the middle ground that can actually make a decision that save SOLDIER lives. CPTs like me and my peers only give orders (that we don't understand) that KILL SOLDIERS. It is a WARRANTS job to stand up to me (a commissioned officer) and convince me that I am wrong in sending a team, a squad, a platoon, a tank, a helicopter to their deaths.

 

Maybe a tad bit on the dramatic side...

 

One thing the warrants have going for them is that typically the SP in the company has control of who makes PC and who doesn't. Can the commander override, yeah but if the commander is a douche, the warrants can make his or her life a real pain in the ass. No Aviation company can effectively run without NCO's and Warrants. Piss us off and your career is not gonna go well.

 

Can RLO's be toxic? sure! But there are some amazing leaders out there too, they just typically get out and work in corporate America or get out of the big army where things are retarded and inefficient.

 

The warrant officer corps has our share of dead weight, and the promotion boards are typically a reflection of that. We are cutting the fat and trimming the ranks back. Warrants are typically better at correcting their own and I feel like sometimes the RLOs get a little arrogant to early in their careers.

 

This is really reflective of the command policies. I find that commands that micro manage soldiers do not trust NCO's and warrants and put complete and utter faith in the officers alone. That's pretty ridiculous considering most PL's have 2-3 years in the Army max!

 

Im all about junior leadership development but LT's do not need to be AMCs in combat, especially when they ask us whats going on most of the time.

 

Anyways what is tread even about?

[Justine]

 

Maybe a tad bit on the dramatic side...

 

One thing the warrants have going for them is that typically the SP in the company has control of who makes PC and who doesn't. Can the commander override, yeah but if the commander is a douche, the warrants can make his or her life a real pain in the ass. No Aviation company can effectively run without NCO's and Warrants. Piss us off and your career is not gonna go well.

 

Can RLO's be toxic? sure! But there are some amazing leaders out there too, they just typically get out and work in corporate America or get out of the big army where things are retarded and inefficient.

 

The warrant officer corps has our share of dead weight, and the promotion boards are typically a reflection of that. We are cutting the fat and trimming the ranks back. Warrants are typically better at correcting their own and I feel like sometimes the RLOs get a little arrogant to early in their careers.

 

This is really reflective of the command policies. I find that commands that micro manage soldiers do not trust NCO's and warrants and put complete and utter faith in the officers alone. That's pretty ridiculous considering most PL's have 2-3 years in the Army max!

 

Im all about junior leadership development but LT's do not need to be AMCs in combat, especially when they ask us whats going on most of the time.

 

Anyways what is tread even about?

An officer's role is to facilitate the jobs of enlisted and warrants. No one soldier can save the world. We each have to accept our roles. Officers take the beating for their troops and make the decisions tt

[Joe_P148]

An officer's role is to facilitate the jobs of enlisted and warrants. No one soldier can save the world. We each have to accept our roles. Officers take the beating for their troops and make the decisions tt

 

like I said there are amazing officer out there, I wouldn't be here today without them.

 

Just adding to the argument, there are good ones and bad ones.

[Justine]

 

like I said there are amazing officer out there, I wouldn't be here today without them.

 

Just adding to the argument, there are good ones and bad ones.

I think the best mentality to have is be open to criticism and be willing to change and adapt to the situation. If we a individuals strive for improvement in all aspects that toxic leadership can be avoided

[MissLibertyBelle]

What is this thread even about? I think we have already "made sausage" in regards to that.

 

If any of you care about your careers as much as I care about mine, here is the latest (sorry, I am a CPT, but it won't be too long before you all are included in this downsizing)....... "quote unquote" if you know what I mean.... Take it for what it is..... this is the direct quote from a major general that got to my inbox....

 

Team - As we continue to shape the Army Competitive Category (ACC) officer

corps in support of the drawdown we will begin to convene Officer Separation

Boards (OSBs) and Enhanced Selective Early Retirement Boards (E-SERBs)

beginning in March 2014.

Captain year groups accessed to support a 547K force coupled with high

promotion selection rates to Major have resulted in an excess of captains

and majors far beyond future requirements.

ACC OSBs and E-SERBs, scheduled to convene in March 2014 will consider

captains in year groups 2006 through 2008 and Majors in year groups 1999 -

2003. Unfortunately we will have to ask approximately 2000 quality officers

to depart. Specific reduction targets for each year group and specialties

within that year group will be determined based on the year group inventory

and Army requirements.

All majors in year groups 1999 - 2003 and captains in year groups 2006 -

2008 not on a promotion list and with more than one year time in grade will

be considered unless they are separating from the Army prior to the convene

date of the board or have an approved retirement date, effective no later

than 90 days from the convene date of the board.

It is our intent that all majors considered by the OSB or E-SERB will be

personally notified and counseled by their brigade commander and captains by

their battalion commander to ensure they understand that they are in the

considered population for the OSB or E-SERB; (2) help them assess their

potential for future service and counsel them on their risk of being

selected by the OSB and E-SERB; and (3) help them prepare their files for

the boards.

As leaders, it is essential that we do all we can to coach and mentor our

subordinates. Candid feedback on an officer's performance and potential is

absolutely critical. For those qualified officers desiring continued

service, leadership should encourage service in the Reserve Component.

Utilizing their skills and experience in the Army Reserve and National Guard

is beneficial to not only the Army, but also the Solider and their families.

Our captains and majors have performed remarkably around the globe with

great proficiency and courage. We cannot and will not allow them and their

Families to be surprised by efforts to downsize our Army. Your brigade and

battalion commanders' personal involvement to ensure each officer is treated

with dignity and respect is absolutely critical.

In the next few days you will receive a GOMO sends and the shortly after we

will begin to release Army Times and other media information during AUSA -

wanted you to have a heads up and welcome to share the general information

with your leaders.

Finally would ask when discussing this topic - do not say we will only

retain the very best but simply state that" we have a very high quality

officer corps and unfortunately as we draw down we will have to transition

some very high quality officers". We will continue to put out more details

in the coming weeks to help answer questions and concerns.

[MissLibertyBelle]

Warrants and commissioned take the same oath, I know. We both serve in a different way. Toxic leadership can never be avoided. The only difference is that officers (especially CPTs at company command level) sign for everything and we are the fall guy for bad sh*t happening. Usually, if bad sh*t happens, the commander deserves it. (I know 2 CO CDRS who deserve it and who have been investigated and fired and will never have a $5/hr job ever again.)

 

Do you know what it's like to "lose" a sensitive item like a 9 mil and it be your fault? I do. Do you know what it's like to send six Soldiers to their death and then answer to their Families? I do.

 

Warrants are trained to do their specialty. Officers (good officers) take responsibility when 1 out of their 167 Soldiers screws up. That's me. If one of my Soldiers f*ck up, I put myself on the line. You, as a warrant, just fly your aircraft to the best of your ability (which is in itself is a life-risking task.)

 

You (as a warrant) are charged with many high risk activities. But me (as an officer) will have to stand behind you and take responsibility for your actions. I do this with pride.

[Joe_P148]

Miss liberty bell,

 

Warrants are pilot in commands, air mission commanders and even platoon leaders and have been known to be company commanders.

 

It may be the company commanders aircraft but the warrant PC or AMC is responsible for everything that happens to it and makes a lot of command decisions in the absence of any RLOs around.

[electron_si]

This thread is getting a little weird.

[UH60L-IP]

edited: waste of typing space

Edited October 24, 2013 by UH60L-IP

[electron_si]

I think we just need to get this thread locked and moved on.

 

 

First duty assignment in no way pertains to where this thread went discussing the roles of commissioned vs. warrant officers and who has ultimate responsibility.

[cofranc]

Hello all, I'm currently applying for Army Warrant Officer via WOFT. I know I am a long ways away from even thinking about this, but are there assignments for Warrant Officer pilots in Germany?

 

P.S. Pardon my ignorance

[Brian101193]

Hello all, I'm currently applying for Army Warrant Officer via WOFT. I know I am a long ways away from even thinking about this, but are there assignments for Warrant Officer pilots in Germany?

 

P.S. Pardon my ignorance

I believe the 12th CAB is in Germany, but it's obviously a very desired destination so I'm not sure it's even an option for new graduates.

[Lindsey]

Because of some...restructuring...it is now extremely rare to get Germany out of flight school. It does happen (I know a 60 guy going there), but odds are very slim.

[Cantankerously]

I believe the 12th CAB is in Germany, but it's obviously a very desired destination so I'm not sure it's even an option for new graduates.

Buddy of mine just got Germany. Hes the only one in months do drop it. Maybe even this year. When I put down my choices on my dream sheet Bragg wasn't even available......guess where I'm going?

[mdeneso]

Getting into 12th CAB now is definitely going to be a challenge. I just left there after a short 7 year tour with that unit. Right before I left they were beginning to cut all the personnel and aircraft.

[cofranc]

Would me being fluent in German have any impact on me be stationed there?

 

I spent a semester in Germany and can speak the language.