Entrance Fees ???

[r22butters]

Have you tried it? If you are that antisocial you may not make a good tour pilot, most of that involves chatting with customers. At least in the spray ship it is just you and your thoughts!

 

I'm too concerned about the health risks involved in working with chemicals. I am not affraid, or unwilling to do "crap work" as Spike seems to suggest! I have worn coveralls before, been covered in grease, mud, and transmission fluid. I'm ok with that,...just not pesticides!

 

As for being antisocial. I don't have any trouble making polite conversation with clients in a working environment (I've done that many times before). Going up to strangers, to try and be their friend, that's what I'm terrible at.

[aeroscout]

Ted Chandler. Ex Navy carrier jet pilot, went into fixed wing ag when he left. He did that for over a decade, and when I met him in Wichita, he was bald from chemotherapy to treat a real hot case of leukemia. He was in remission when I worked with him for about 2 years. Then, it came roaring back, and in a flash he was gone. Late 40's. Far too young if you ask me. Pesticides, Herbicides, Fungicides, concentrated fertilizers, in my mind I imagine it's like bathing, inhaling, and ingesting in a chemical cocktail. Unless it's a lot different than what he did then, Ag would be my last resort, although, it's honest hard work, and I wouldn't denigrate it for that. I have talked with other pretty well know Ag guys from that region. Pinky Pinkerton comes to mind. Just my opinion, strongly formed from personal relationships.

[Pohi]

I'm pretty sure the operators have to take precautions against the chemicals. It's not like the old days where you washed your hands in the stuff and then ate lunch. I know a few guys who have been doing AG for 20+ years.

 

There are def more risks though, I guess that's why it pays so much.

 

[r22butters]

When I was young, I wanted to be a bicycle mechanic and twist wrenches for Lance Armstrong. My problem was, I just wanted to tighten spokes. To make matters worse, I limited myself to only tightening 10 spokes. I sent Lance hundreds of resumes but he never replied. So I let that dream slip by. Now, I’m active on a bicycle mechanic forum letting people know it’s difficult to break into the business……… I feel your pain....

 

I have a story too,...only mine isn't a sarcastic poke.

 

Many, many years ago I wanted to be a pizza delivery boy. Of course everyone wants to be the delivery boy, so when I applied at my local pizza place, they said I'd have to start at the bottom,...so I did.

 

First I was a bus boy, then I moved into the kitchen, where there were three more stations I had to progress through. After that they put me at the register, and eventually night manager. Then finally I got my shot, they needed another delivery boy, so I took a pay cut, and became a delivery boy. I was at this company for around five years and got to do the job I wanted for about the last three.

 

Currently I'm getting into trucking, and sure, I would love a local job where I get to come home every night, but I've accepted that those jobs require at least a years experience first. So now I'm preparing to spend the next year, or so, driving back and forth across the country, sleeping in the back of the truck, and showering once a week at the Flying J.

 

My point;

 

Every job you want to do will require you to do a job you don't want to do first (and no, I did not learn that here!). What makes you choose to endure that first job does not depend on how much you despise it, or even what risks are involved, but instead, what makes you choose to do it, is how much you desire the job it will ultimately lead to!

 

The reward must match the dues to be paid! In my case it does not! The job I want as a pilot is not worth, to me, what it takes to get! In other words. I don't want to be an employed pilot so badly that I am willing to do ANYTHING to become one!

 

These are choices we all have to make!

 

I've made mine, if that means I will never be an employed pilot,..oh well! So I will end my participation in this thread by stating once again, "The entrance fees (for the job I want) are more than I am willing to pay!".

 

Have a nice day.

[clay]

there are some cool truck driver forums out there I'm sure butters.

 

try:

http://drive18wheeler.com/forums/

 

or

 

http://www.truckerforum.com/forum/

Edited March 5, 2012 by clay

[aeroscout]

As I read the story, the truck driving wasn't the point. The guy has a helo background, why be obtuse about it ?

[clay]

I think your missing the point of my post. But that's ok, I'll explain:

 

Butters has been active here a while, as have I and many others. Unfortunately the only post I ever read from butters is negative and complaining about why someone won't give him a chance or there are no opportunities. Then when a post that may offer a suggestion comes up, there is some reason that comes up that keeps him from pursuing his career. Now he has a new career which is trucks, so I merely stated and showed a few active forums for that line of work.

 

You can call it a personal attack or whatever you'd like, and I'd probably agree with you for the most part. But I am tired of reading every single post concerning employment in this industry bashed by one person. We know he can't find a job, But we have also told him why (lack of a cfi or cfii, lower hours, no industry experience yet, ATTITUDE, etc...) but if you aren't willing to do whatever it takes to make it work, quit complaining.

 

I'd say I would just quit reading the posts made that concern that, but they are on every industry and job post made on this forum.

 

So as not to hijack this post: my flight school was paid for by cash from lots of hard work and sweat. I think I did all I could to pursue my career and I am extremely happy where it is at now. I worked full time during flight school, got my sh*t done, moved across the country and lived in a 26 foot RV with another CFII for 6 months in western Colorado, they shut down. Packed my crap and landed another gig in eastern Colorado and worked at that a few years. All that time my gf/fiancé was in Tx and all my friends and family were there also. It sucked, but I did what I had to do to make it work. Went to the gulf and landed a job with a small operator ( by word of mouth and networking. Thanks to a good guy who gave me a shot). Now I'm at one of the larger operators flying a twin and thoroughly enjoying it.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2012 by clay

[heligirl03]

Lol, Clay, I'm right with you. I spent 5 years of blood sweat and tears, school full time, work full time, moved 6 times, traveled for face time, etc, to get here. But I guess this whole thread (and others) just more clearly exemplifies the difference between individuals....All of these things Butters detests as "dues paying" in our industry, many of us have pursued wholeheartedly, likely even enjoyed the journey and its challenges, and now reap the rewards. I mean, I feel pretty OK about where I am and what I've done...I like my job, I can pay my bills, I finally have options! And I can say one thing 100% for sure: I most definitely am not willing to do what it takes to pay my dues to drive truck OTR or anywhere else for that matter. So I guess I'll just stick to being a helicopter pilot!

[Mikemv]

Lol, Clay, I'm right with you. I spent 5 years of blood sweat and tears, school full time, work full time, moved 6 times, traveled for face time, etc, to get here. But I guess this whole thread (and others) just more clearly exemplifies the difference between individuals....All of these things Butters detests as "dues paying" in our industry, many of us have pursued wholeheartedly, likely even enjoyed the journey and its challenges, and now reap the rewards. I mean, I feel pretty OK about where I am and what I've done...I like my job, I can pay my bills, I finally have options! And I can say one thing 100% for sure: I most definitely am not willing to do what it takes to pay my dues to drive truck OTR or anywhere else for that matter. So I guess I'll just stick to being a helicopter pilot!

Bravo Emily! You are a wonderful example of making it happen. I remember you asking me a question about initial SBT during a Wings presentation at Heli Success one year and then seeing you in flight/company uniform this past year. We did not interface very much but I must tell you that you made me, Lyn and others smile inside more than you know.

 

Also you do not get airsick like someone that posts here often and in a negative light on almost every thread!

 

Mike

[Spike]

Also you do not get airsick like someone that posts here often and in a negative light on almost every thread!

 

In my opinion,

 

Agreed.....

 

Some folks here at VR actually try to help new folks who wish to enter into this business. Most of these folks offer realistic views based upon their own extensive experience in the business. Some of these views include the harsh realities of the business with no sugarpuddin…. Simply put, there is enough pessimism to go around without misinformation being spread from these who’ve never experienced it.. Misinformation detracts from the real discussion and often leads to unnecessary debates. Some have no time (or patience) for such malarkey and reply accordingly….

 

The lesson of the spoke story is; if you limit yourself, in any shape or form, and it will not happen. Every day, employers discriminate during the selection process. Begin by first discriminating against yourself, and you have no chance. Sorry to say, one must be willing to do almost anything to get the seat. Put any kind of stipulation or limitation on that; you’re doomed……… As it should be…..

Edited March 6, 2012 by Spike

[ADRidge]

You know, I've been on this forum for a while now. I started reading and posting here about a year before I started flight training, and learned a bunch from reading about the experiences of pilots who have been around this whole flying thing much longer than I have. The first lesson I ever learned, and one that I have since burned into my brain, is that to succeed in this business you must be flexible.

 

Especially when you're just starting out, you absolutely cannot limit yourself in any way. Geography should not be a concern. To an extent, the mission profile should not be a concern. If someone wants to give you a chance, you JUMP on it. I just got my first flying job this past Monday. I know a guy who knows a guy with a few helicopters and a business that thrives on flexibility. One day he's out doing fair rides, the next he's doing hog hunts, aerial photos, wildlife surveys or ag work. He gave me a chance, and I took it. The location is not ideal, the pay... well, it's a first gig. But the important thing is, my foot is in the door. At the end of the day, you take what you can get, how you can get it, WHERE you can get it. Otherwise, you will never get your start.

 

Seems silly to me to burn all this money earning your ratings only to put constraints on where you'll take a job, or what type of job you'll take when you have absolutely nothing to bring to the table other than a willingness to learn. It kind of reminds me of that demotivational poster of the sinking ship.... "it could be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others..."

[jimbo2181]

I got a doctorate in aerospace engineering but I can't get a job in po dunk Iowa. Someone offered me an opportunity nearby but I don't like to use rocket fuel. How could a college take my money if I can't work in my chosen career...

[aeroscout]

I got a doctorate in aerospace engineering but I can't get a job in po dunk Iowa. Someone offered me an opportunity nearby but I don't like to use rocket fuel. How could a college take my money if I can't work in my chosen career...

I believe there is a point in there somewhere that applies to our industry. Maybe a commentary on SilverState ?

[Spike]

How could a college take my money if I can't work in my chosen career...

 

Correct me if I’m wrong; they didn’t take your money, you gave it to them………

Edited March 7, 2012 by Spike

[r22butters]

I have a story too,...only mine isn't a sarcastic poke.

 

Many, many years ago I wanted to be a pizza delivery boy. Of course everyone wants to be the delivery boy, so when I applied at my local pizza place, they said I'd have to start at the bottom,...so I did.

 

First I was a bus boy, then I moved into the kitchen, where there were three more stations I had to progress through. After that they put me at the register, and eventually night manager. Then finally I got my shot, they needed another delivery boy, so I took a pay cut, and became a delivery boy. I was at this company for around five years and got to do the job I wanted for about the last three.

 

Currently I'm getting into trucking, and sure, I would love a local job where I get to come home every night, but I've accepted that those jobs require at least a years experience first. So now I'm preparing to spend the next year, or so, driving back and forth across the country, sleeping in the back of the truck, and showering once a week at the Flying J.

 

My point;

 

Every job you want to do will require you to do a job you don't want to do first (and no, I did not learn that here!). What makes you choose to endure that first job does not depend on how much you despise it, or even what risks are involved, but instead, what makes you choose to do it, is how much you desire the job it will ultimately lead to!

 

The reward must match the dues to be paid! In my case it does not! The job I want as a pilot is not worth, to me, what it takes to get! In other words. I don't want to be an employed pilot so badly that I am willing to do ANYTHING to become one!

 

These are choices we all have to make!

 

I've made mine, if that means I will never be an employed pilot,..oh well! So I will end my participation in this thread by stating once again, "The entrance fees (for the job I want) are more than I am willing to pay!".

 

Have a nice day.

 

Read this again! Its not a complaint about not finding a job! Its not an attack on any of you, or the choices you've made! Its just an explanation of my own choices!

 

I was just saying goodbye,...Damn!

 

Butters has left the building.

[RagMan]

I'd sure like to know how you figured you were ever going to get hired as a pilot with just a commercial certificate.... I still can not fathom how you figured that was going to work out for you....

 

None the less, safe driving on the interstates! Enjoy the trucking career. Maybe someday a flying opportunity will come along and open up for you, Butters.

 

Guess the odd's of one of us getting that next flying job just decreased by about .002 percent....!

[aeroscout]

I didn't see flying pig comment on this thread. If he did, I imagine he would say he works in an industry where you make a reputation first, and if it's good enough then you can progress into a flying job with little to no flight time.