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Entrance Fees ???


zemogman
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Financial status of Pilots...  

152 members have voted

  1. 1. Which best describes how you became a pilot ?

    • Military - Uncle Sam trained me!!
      22
    • Training $ - No Loan - Financed myself
      52
    • Borrowed $ - It's Paid Off
      10
    • Borrowed $ - I'm Still Paying
      38
    • Borrowed $ - Wish I could pay!!
      15
    • Other - Please explain if possible !!
      15


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I think this poll will bring some perspective...

 

Are those of us training today...training with "stressed-out" CFI's who are up to their necks in debt?

Are we destined to be in the same boat financially?

Are most pilots trained by the military?

Are most pilots starving because they can't pay their loans?

Etc...

 

I know it's a poll but if you would like to give details with a post please do so for our edification as to how you did it...cause it obvious that many have made it...inquiring minds would like to know how.

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Personally I did a combination. Worked at a fish hatchery, pulp mill... to pay off the majority of the flight training then when I ran out of money, my folks co-signed a loan for $4,000.

 

Something to consider though, when I did it the TOTAL cost to CFII was $12,000 in 1987 with the fixed wing instrument and PVT ASEL. To be honest, I don't know how the helicopter pilots do it these days. I've heard as high as 6 digits to get the CFII. You could almost purchase a helicopter, train in it, and sell it and be ahead of the game.

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I agree vert...

 

It's also discouraging that once you get to CFII you are way under the typical requirements for a job/career in the industry...except for a training job of course.

 

What keeps me going is that it is the only way in...and I want in!

 

I'll have to figure out the HOW as I go...Part-time flying/training while keep a current career is the only way I can see it happening. This of course adds the time it takes to "get in"...

 

Thanks for your insight...

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I'm not sure how much perspective you're really going to get, since I doubt this forum really represents the majority of helicopter pilots. I don't see many long-time pilots on here.

 

 

This is not at all intended to be disrespectful.

 

That said, in your experience Gomer, how were most long time pilots trained? In your opinion before you left the gulf was it trending one way or the other (mil/civ)? I realize that most GOM FNG's are not long term pilots however it is interesting to me how the void will be filled given the impending retirement of the "Baby Boomers". I do believe that there is a shortage of QUALIFIED helo drivers which I hope will drive the pay grade higher. However, there seems to be no shortage of mamma and daddy "chopper pilots". This leads me to believe, that if someone who is self motivated and willing to be patient, instead of taking on impossible debt, takes their time and learns from the old guys, they can eventually make it. At least I hope so, for my sake.

 

 

Regards,

 

Josh

Edited by jbax22
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Most of the pilots I know, who have been flying for a long time, were military trained. I can't even imagine paying for the training myself. It would take decades, at least, to pay off the loans necessary to get the necessary training and build the necessary time. I'm seeing a few pilots now who have done everything civilian, but they're still in the minority. As soon as the military starts releasing pilots, I think they will take many of the available jobs, because they have the turbine time and the instrument rating. Without an instrument rating, you're at a huge disadvantage, and will never get a good flying job. I also think the future GOM pilots will be coming mostly from the schools Bristow is buying and staffing. They will train their own pilots, and the ones they don't hire will go to the other GOM companies. The SSH graduates, and the ones from other schools, will get only the few jobs left over, and will have to fight for those.

 

I could be wrong, but that's the way I see things right now.

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Gomer,

 

I'm seeing pilots get out now, just because the jobs are available and some want to avoid having to go to another location to get shot at. The thing is, that even with the operation tempo the way it is, the positions for pilots really haven't increased all that much. What has improved is the process for getting them and keeping them in the training pipeline to make sure we don't get caught short.

 

But, even the military runs on money, only in this case it isn't the money being earned but allocated. The difference between what will be post-Iraq and what was post-Vietnam, is that there aren't a lot of extra units being created in the active force to fill the gaps, and we aren't conscripting extra people. When the war is over, we will be at or near (either above or below) the peacetime manning for the active military force. The only drawdown will be the voluntary one of individuals leaving the service. I highly doubt, in the Army's case, anyways, that we will ever be able to cause the same glut of helicopter pilots as we did post-Vietnam with an all-volunteer force.

 

Of course, I could also be wrong. Have been before...once or twice, maybe. ;)

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I predict a draft soon, following the invasion of Iran, which seems to be inevitable, given the administration's obsessions. After that, who knows what will happen. I really, really hope I'm wrong about that, because we simply don't have anywhere near the necessary number of military personnel for that, but I'm not optimistic.

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Hey Gomer I highly doubt the attack on Iran will take place due to the fact that their so called currect president is nothing more than a public (puppet) figure, the ruling Iatolla (sp?) party are the ones who are in control, hence the reason for the release of the british soilders.

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Well, I honestly didnt set out to be a commercial aviator, it just worked out that way. I started out in the field of natural resources management, forestry in particular, with my personal interest more aimed at mapping, survey and the interpretive sciences.... I just ended up integrating them all.. decided I needed certifications in aviation... that lead me to both fixed wing and rotorcraft licenses... since I was working full time (WAY BACK THEN) I was able to finance my way through it all....

 

woowoo

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First off let me say I have yet to start my flight training as I still have 11 days of service left in the Air Force. Uncle Same was kind enough to pay officers in select career fields a "Voluntary Seperation Pay". With eight years time in service I received about 97,000 (before taxes). That coupled with my GI bill should, I hope, be enough to pay for everything allowing me to focus solely on flying. Looks like it's gonna be Vortex or Aquila...

 

Scott

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  • 1 year later...
Personally I did a combination. Worked at a fish hatchery, pulp mill... to pay off the majority of the flight training then when I ran out of money, my folks co-signed a loan for $4,000.

 

Something to consider though, when I did it the TOTAL cost to CFII was $12,000 in 1987 with the fixed wing instrument and PVT ASEL. To be honest, I don't know how the helicopter pilots do it these days. I've heard as high as 6 digits to get the CFII. You could almost purchase a helicopter, train in it, and sell it and be ahead of the game.

Yeah buying a heli would be nice. but only a few can actually afford it. ;)
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I paid and AM paying for my training. I paid for my PPL, with a (very) little help from my dad here and there. I'm paying fully for my comm/IFR/CFI training currently. It's slow going, and I had to cut most things fun out of my life but flying, but it's worth it. It's only temporary. I fly (depending on my CFI's work load) every weekend or every other weekend. I'm 23, and have a stable job paying ok (Job SUCKS SO MUCH, but it pays so who cares?).

 

My decision to pay instead of taking out a loan is because I don't want to stress out when my training is done. I don't want to have to push to get my loans paid for, and I don't want to have to take the first job I get offered as a CFI because i'm desperate. I want to take the job I want to take.

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My story... Paid for my PPL ASEL a couple of years ago, messed around went to college, continued onto my IFR (FW), ran out of money so I never finished my IR. Joined the Army, Uncle Sam paid for my RW tickets, and now I'm saving up (Have to learn how to hover something with a T/R again) to knock out my RW CFI... Probably at Tomlinson (eventually). After all that is done I want to finish up my FW ratings just cause I can, but that's going to be a long time from now.

 

 

CHAD

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First off, i did all my training civilian, and also was paid out of pocket, no loans. As far as the helicopter industry and pilot jobs, i have a positive outlook on this! I have almost 1/3 of my total time in turbine helicopters, yet i only have about 350 hours TT. I think it is ALL about how you present yourself, the contacts you make, the friends you make, and your dedication to making things work. I have spent many days sitting at the airport talking to pilots, waiting for a call and hoping for a seat in the heli. And it worked! sometimes they didn't have room, sometimes they did. Meet the right people who always have room (personally owned helicopters, ENG helicopters, etc. etc. ) make friends with the pilots, be respectful of older pilots and always be willing to listen and take criticism/advice and all will happen in time. I am currently employed and have no worries of finding future employment. stay positive guys. . it will all come together at some point if you are willing to put the effort.

 

Clay

 

p.s. I did all my training in Enstroms..... (not to popular for training) hard to find a job, but they are out there!

Edited by clay
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I've been very fortunate in the fact that my parents are able to help out quite a bit. It means I fly less than a person with a loan, sure, but that's fine. I'm 24 and I've got plenty of time to get my ratings. Plus, only being able to afford to fly twice a week gives me ample time to study.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I still believe the absolute best way is to partner for purchase of a machine or form a limited partnership business to borrow for a machine, hire a CFI, get your training and your hours. Afterwards you can recoup some of your money through sale of machine or the business.

 

The military pilots I was flying with, before my retirement, were leaving the military. The scary thing for the strength of our country is they were also leaving flying completely. The pay is higher for them if they use their degrees in other industries. Our country needs pilots; civilian and military.

 

The civilian training is not adequate for the industry/insurance companies and full of deceit/crooks. The military training is not producing the same numbers as even a few years ago. I predict the industry is going to be more selective in getting quality people versus hours in the near future. I predict the civilian training schools/instructors are going to price themselves out of business. I am not saying instructors are not worth more than what they are paid, but when the school charges 50-60 dollars per hour for an instructor....and the instructor only sees 20 dollars....something stinks.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
I am not saying instructors are not worth more than what they are paid, but when the school charges 50-60 dollars per hour for an instructor....and the instructor only sees 20 dollars....something stinks.

 

Spierman,

Would you please call my employer and explain this to them! LOL......They won't listen to any of us in the shop.

 

$70hr shop rate, top mech $17.50 hr I am just under $15.80 plus bonuses w/15 years with the company and 20 yrs total experience, military mechanic school, too.

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