jimbo2181 Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 I have a feeling the worlds largest string of helicopter related poop puns is about to begin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo2181 Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 As for mine. Did you log that towards your duty time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharyouTree Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 As for mine. Did you log that towards your duty time? Ah...A two-fer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 That's gotta be some tasty corn (or whatever it is).The corn placement chronology is crucial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver-eagle Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 ...SNIP...By the way, if we're stopping the clock now every time the skids hit the floor, well...you know those little talks students and cfis have every so often after a few maneuvers? I'm going to start doing my from a hover! Mine does. And here I thought he was just testing my skills not padding the bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 People that fudge their logbook get away with it because employers sadly don't check. Solution...The FAA should randomly perform logbook auditing for active working commercial pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious T Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 People that fudge their logbook get away with it because employers sadly don't check. Solution...The FAA should randomly perform logbook auditing for active working commercial pilots. Ah yes, more government oversight, exactly what we need. How can they audit logbooks when the FARs don't even require you to have one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I wouldnt be the slightest bit interested in having the FAA randomely audit my log book. I work for the government, I know how they can be. Youll end up with some guy losing his career for a .2 addition error on page 27 of 10,000hrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 The system is built for the lowest common denominator. That is, the lowest common denominator on both ends…. Maybe only sign the pages which document currency, flight reviews, training and/or certification requirements……. After that, the rest is up for interpretation (there’s that pesky word again)…. In any case, use a pencil for your totals….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 A senior pilot once told me, fly what you want, log what you need. The are of course many variations on that theme. But he did add, keep your pencil sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious T Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 A senior pilot once told me, fly what you want, log what you need. The are of course many variations on that theme. But he did add, keep your pencil sharp. Another good one: "Don't let your logbook exceed your ability." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I wouldnt be the slightest bit interested in having the FAA randomely audit my log book. I work for the government, I know how they can be. You'll end up with some guy losing his career for a .2 addition error on page 27 of 10,000hrs. You and Tenacious have a point. It sucks to have the FAA stick their noses even further up our asses, but there are many dishonest pilots these days adding hours they didn't earn. Think about the price you paid to gain experience. Its not fair that pilots with no integrity pollute the right of passage. Regulation is needed to bust the low time pilots that do this kinda stuff. I don't think someone should loose their job over a .2 mistake, but if there are obvious signs off major hour fudging going on in their logbook, they should be crucified by the FAA. I think the FAA should require all flight hours to be logged for pilots under a certain hour amount (say 3000 hours for example). The logbooks of low time pilots should be screened and there should be a requirement for pilots under a certain hour mark to accurately log every flight. I'm flying turbine helicopters with a co-worker that told me from his own lips that he fudged his logbook to meet the hour requirements for this job. He didn't earn his position here at the company. I'm not a narc, but it really pisses me off that he got the job. Now I have to fly with someone that doesn't have the experience that he should. He could be putting the lives of innocent people in jeopardy because he doesn't have the experience he said he did. "Don't let your logbook exceed your ability" and "fly what you want, log what you need" Really guys??? Those are probably the most rediculous sayings I've ever read on this forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 "I'm not a narc, but it really pisses me off that he got the job. Now I have to fly with someone that doesn't have the experience that he should. He's putting the lives of innocent people in jeopardy because he doesn't have the experience he said he did." If he's putting people's lives in jeopardy, perhaps you should rat him out,...and save those lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Amended. I should have said he "could" be putting lives in danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Fly what you want, and log what you need is whatever you want to make of it. I think it's quite humorous actually. Not ridiculous at all. If you "want" to fly 8 hours, and "need" to log one, go for it. If your wants and needs are exactly equal, so much the better. Anyone who thinks that saying is ridiculous hasn't been around aviation very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippiesdrainage Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Lets say that Mr. CFI has 900 actual hours. These are completly legit and real. Now for whatever reason they suddenly decide to fudge their logbook up to 1000. I understand the lack of honesty gets us all riled up and angry that the CFI didn't earn it. But I don't know if they are necessarily "putting peoples lives in danger". Do you think that this pilot with 900 actual hours really flies any differently than a pilot with 1000. That's a serious fudge of 100 hours. Or what if a guy wanting to go to work at a high time place fudges his logbook of 2800 actual hours up to 3000 hours. It's a fudge of 200 but do you think his skills will grow dramatically in 200 hours when he's already fairly earned 2800? I agree fudging is a problem and I don't want someone doing tours with customers who've fudged from 500 all the way up to 1000. But some fudging, especially by higher time guys, doesn't bother me as much. I understand the desire to have the FAA step in and begin inspecting logbooks but it's going to hurt a lot of honest guys with simple mistakes, or honest guys with small mistakes, as well as cost the taxpayers who knows how many millions of dollars, just to catch a handful of low time liars.It's not worth burning the whole city down to convince a few noisy neighbors to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Lets say that Mr. CFI has 900 actual hours. These are completly legit and real. Now for whatever reason they suddenly decide to fudge their logbook up to 1000. I understand the lack of honesty gets us all riled up and angry that the CFI didn't earn it. But I don't know if they are necessarily "putting peoples lives in danger". Do you think that this pilot with 900 actual hours really flies any differently than a pilot with 1000. That's a serious fudge of 100 hours. Or what if a guy wanting to go to work at a high time place fudges his logbook of 2800 actual hours up to 3000 hours. It's a fudge of 200 but do you think his skills will grow dramatically in 200 hours when he's already fairly earned 2800? I agree fudging is a problem and I don't want someone doing tours with customers who've fudged from 500 all the way up to 1000. But some fudging, especially by higher time guys, doesn't bother me as much. if it doesnt bother you much, then its not something we can explain on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) "...But some fudging, especially by higher time guys, doesn't bother me as much." You may change your mind if that high-time fudger gets the job you really wanted, even though he was actually 100hrs shy of the 3000hr minimum, and you were legitimately there!? Plus, if the high-time fudger is fudging how much long line experience he really has (or fire fighting, etc...) he could be endangering others lives? Edited August 9, 2012 by eagle5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 You have a point, I guess 100 hours doesn't make any difference in a skill set of a 1000 hour pilot. But when your fudging requirements like cross country or night hours...well those are hours of experience do make a bit of a difference. Wouldn't you agree? My next point... How about this scenario? Say you have 1100 hours and apply for a job flying tours in turbines. Another pilot lies on his resume and says he has 1100 hours when he really has 975 and gets the job over you. Now you are stuck working as a CFI for another year until the next tour season because some dipshit fudged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) You have a point, I guess 100 hours doesn't make any difference in a skill set of a 1000 hour pilot. But when your fudging requirements like cross country or night hours...well those are hours of experience do make a bit of a difference. Wouldn't you agree? My next point... How about this scenario? Say you have 1100 hours and apply for a job flying tours in turbines. Another pilot lies on his resume and says he has 1100 hours when he really has 975 and gets the job over you. Now you are stuck working as a CFI for another year until the next tour season because some dipshit fudged. IME, if a pilot gets an opportunity to interview, his flight time is low on the relevancy chart. Pilots are often hired (read routinely) without meeting minimum requirements. With that said, getting the interview is the key. Not what's written on the resume cuz most will ignore the small deficiencies.... A Ripley moment: a major EMS operator once hired a pilot who didn't meet their published minimums for an EC135 gig. The kid had 800 hours. If a major is going to flex their hiring standards to this point, why lie about 200 hours? It's the individual that matters, not the numbers in the book. Edited August 9, 2012 by Spike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) "A Ripley moment: a major EMS operator once hired a pilot who didn't meet their published minimums for an EC135 gig. The kid had 800 hours. If a major is going to flex their hiring standards to this point, why lie about 200 hours?" I have heard these types of stories before, but I've never actually met one of them!,...Tall tales from the lucky few! Most of us won't even make it to the interview unless we meet the minimum hour requirement!,...and everyone I've known didn't get one until they were well beyond it! Fudging your book won't get you the job, but it can get you the interview, which is like punching a guy in the gut, then cutting in front of him in a very, very, very, long line! Edited August 9, 2012 by eagle5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Most of us won't even make it to the interview unless we meet the minimum hour requirement!,... Sorry to say, this is called a Butterism…. Getting an interview is dependent on you. Not an hour requirement, not a resume, in some cases not even an insurance company…. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Sorry to say, this is called a Butterism…. Getting an interview is dependent on you. Not an hour requirement, not a resume, in some cases not even an insurance company…. Everyone note Spike's words, they are the reason to attend Heli Success, FAASTeam presentations and social hour Nov. 3, 4 & 5. I think that every pilot I recommended got an interview and a job!!!!!!! Good luck to all, Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippiesdrainage Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 MikeMV if I go will you give me a recommendation? I'll repay you in back-rubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) 20 years ago when I had only my private airplane cert. I moved to Dallas and wanted to rent a TR182 out of addison.. I had about 110 hours (alot of it in a TR182 that my father-in-law owned). Insurance required 150 tt... So I whipped it up and flew into the sunset... I still laugh when I look at those 40 hours and the comments I wrote back then. Now I hardly remember to write anything down in a logbook and do my best not to repeat numbers on my medical applications. haha just remembered... on my private add-on the examiner pointed out that I didn't have enough (night instruction I think)? He said... you wanna check that over? I said yes, let me see. So I changed the number on the form to show enough. He even gave me the white-out. He never cared to look in my log book. Edited August 9, 2012 by apiaguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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