Its going to be an interesting time for military flying.

[akscott60]

Google sequestration.

 

To all the hopefuls for of piss and vinegar, I applaud you. Do not let anyone stop you from your dreams.

 

However, a severe budget crunch is imminent. At rucker you will fly 5 times a week for about 7 months. Do not grow to think that is normal.

 

The real Army is a different story. Minimum hours are rather low for some airframes, and can get a whole lot lower. My airframe is blessed with the highest FAC1 minimums at 140 hours per year. However, some airframes can be less than 100. You may fly once per week, or even less. You may take 6+ months to even start RL progression. You may not deploy to AFG.

 

This is the reality that we face under our current administration with a severe budget crunch and a winding down war in AFG.

 

To think of a 6 year hitch as a guarenteed 2000 hours would be folly. You are serving your country, and your country may want/need you to fly a desk for the majority of the time.

 

Just my public service announcement. You may return to your scheduled programming.

[SBuzzkill]

I was waiting for someone to make this thread. From the rumors I am hearing we may not even get enough hours to make minimums. 2000 hours at the end of 6 years? We will be lucky to get close to 1000.

 

That said, we get paid well to fly great helicopters on cool missions. The rest of the time we are paid to do easy jobs and study. It's all turbine time, and you are paid to get your training. It's a good gig, just not the quickest way to get hours. If you want to be at the controls every day it's not the job for you. If you want to be at the controls every week it's still probably not the job for you. If you want to fly an awesome helicopter and do cool things you wont get to do elsewhere then it is the job for you.

[akscott60]

Exactly. Tmw I am going to go shoot 50 and rockets. From a helicopter with no doors.

 

Awesome much?

 

[Rob1237051]

In regards to overall force readiness and individual pilot proficiency, we're looking at some tough times.

 

In regards to my golf game, it looks encouraging.

 

The less flight time thing is probably more of a let-down for street to seat guys. Don't get me wrong...I'm all about army aviation. I have, however, got a couple crewmember deployments. If I spend more time working on an additional duty and less time in the aircraft, I'll probably survive. I intended to do A&P work after 20 anyway...

 

At any rate, elections are every four years. The world is not ending because the current administration is more about inner city smartphones and less about the DOD. There will be room for advancement and progress for anyone willing to work hard and maintain a high professional standard. Although we'll have less slots for CW3, overall, the people who joined just to fly will take themselves out of the race after they discover how enjoyable it is to be unit supply or arms room.

[Blue2Green4WOFT]

I hope I can do these awesome things one day! If only my command would get on board with my conditional release...sigh...regardless of the hours I will do whatever it takes to become a Army Helo pilot doing cool sh*t!!

[Hotdogs]

Exactly. Tmw I am going to go shoot 50 and rockets. From a helicopter with no doors.

 

Awesome much?

 

 

Me too. Except I'm going to actually hit my targets.

 

Military is still a good route. You can't beat the pay and the flying is way more dynamic.

[Velocity173]

For you hopefuls I'll just tell you the world is unpredictable and you need to be ready for your turn. One day in Germany I was sitting in my office doing paperwork with a fellow WO1 buddy sitting across from me. It was another week where we weren't on the schedule and we would be forced to bribe the MTP to pick one of us for a test hop. I looked at him and said "Did you think this is what we'd be doing when you signed up?" "Nope." A couple months later 9/11 happened and unfortunately because of that, getting hours was no longer a factor.

 

Although I don't think our country has the stomach for another war anytime soon, make sure you prepare yourself anyway. Take your sim periods seriously and maximize your flight time during field excercises. I said before, you all are about to experience the Army of the 90s. Not much flying, not many promotions, lots of sim, additional duties, classes to give and courses to attend. Just make the best of it and be thankful you have a job that has decent pay and benefits. You'll be Army Aviator and part of a proud heritage.

 

Edit: just realized this isn't just an Army thread. All the services have a proud heritage.

[wopilot]

Even before this, in 6 years I got 1200... I can only imagine now...

 

And most of that was combat time..

[UnitedWeStand111]

Sir, do you think the same thing applies to the 160th? Or is fed spending increasing for the USASOC?

[Lindsey]

Edit: just realized this isn't just an Army thread. All the services have a proud heritage.

 

I think HotDogs is the only non-Army pilot/wannabe in here. Poor guy.

[rotormandan]

Google sequestration.

 

To all the hopefuls for of piss and vinegar, I applaud you. Do not let anyone stop you from your dreams.

 

However, a severe budget crunch is imminent. At rucker you will fly 5 times a week for about 7 months. Do not grow to think that is normal.

 

The real Army is a different story. Minimum hours are rather low for some airframes, and can get a whole lot lower. My airframe is blessed with the highest FAC1 minimums at 140 hours per year. However, some airframes can be less than 100. You may fly once per week, or even less. You may take 6+ months to even start RL progression. You may not deploy to AFG.

 

This is the reality that we face under our current administration with a severe budget crunch and a winding down war in AFG.

 

To think of a 6 year hitch as a guarenteed 2000 hours would be folly. You are serving your country, and your country may want/need you to fly a desk for the majority of the time.

 

Just my public service announcement. You may return to your scheduled programming.

 

 

Hey, on the civi side, I started flight school 8 years ago. I spent 1.5 years in school. Since then I've been working pretty steady. Some winters off and a couple years spent driving a fuel truck while flying when the company let me. I'm just barely to 2500 hours now. I think that's just the way it is in this industry with the economy these days. If I had gotten a normal entry level job instead of truck driver I might have a few more hours, but the guys I drove truck for taught me more then I'd have learned doing tours. 2000 hrs in 6 years is probably not too bad. Especially since you can skip the broke years. The military feeds better then raman noodles(I hope) and you're not still in debt after 6 years.

[I3uller]

To be honest, I don't think that this falters my decision to apply to WOFT at all and I think that's a good thing. It makes me disappointed to see that some folks seem to see the Army as a free ride through flight training and hours almost like a gateway to a civilian job but it's more than that. Yes, flying is fun and you will get the best training you can get and lots of hours without any cost to you, but to me it's a lot more about the sense of pride in serving something bigger than yourself and putting something back into the country and community that has given me so much. If being able to combine my love of flying helicopters with the opportunity to publicly serve something bigger than myself, I'm ok with a few caveats. That and you get to shoot rockets off a helicopter (the best one) with no doors. I mean c'mon.

[DC8488]

+1 to what I3uller said.

 

This thread makes me wonder about how I can become a better aviator for our troops during downtime. Is it possible to go on FTXs with the troops on the ground and get their perspective of flight operations and how I could better serve them? I personally see this as more valuable time spent than restocking the fridge, but I am not sure if the Army does. What other training avenues are available to aviators to broaden their knowledge base? Schools?

[Velocity173]

+1 to what I3uller said.

 

This thread makes me wonder about how I can become a better aviator for our troops during downtime. Is it possible to go on FTXs with the troops on the ground and get their perspective of flight operations and how I could better serve them? I personally see this as more valuable time spent than restocking the fridge, but I am not sure if the Army does. What other training avenues are available to aviators to broaden their knowledge base? Schools?

 

Oh the Army will find things for you to do. You'll have courses to attend that relate to your additional duties. I don't know of too many guys that went to Airborne or AA school unless they were stationed at Bragg or Campbell. As far as serving the troops, you have a few non flying positions where you work with the infantry in a liaison role. Had a TACOPs guy in my last unit who worked with BAE concerning ASE equipment . He didn't like being out of the cockpit for so long. You'll be assigned to computer excercises (CTX) every now and then as well. During an FTX you might very well be assigned a liaison with the infantry.

 

A lot of guys take college courses during their time off. Almost every one of my friends, if I click on their FB, it will list Embry Riddle as their school. Some use GI Bill for flight training in their time off. Probably 75 % of the guys used AVOTEC at my last unit.

 

So, plenty of non flying stuff to do out there. Mostly in your non flying days you'll work in your additional duties or study.

 

Do anything that will improve your chances of promotion. Just heard from a friend last night that only 35 % were picked up for CW3 on the last board. He was passed over twice for promotion and is now being forced out. Got plenty of friends who were already passed over once and most likely not get picked up. These people aren't dirt bags either. It's just a way of the Army to reduce its numbers. Like my friend told me last night, the helicopter job market will soon be flooded from all the guys we pumped through Rucker the last ten years.

[AVIATORWANNABE]

 

 

Oh the Army will find things for you to do. You'll have courses to attend that relate to your additional duties. I don't know of too many guys that went to Airborne or AA school unless they were stationed at Bragg or Campbell. As far as serving the troops, you have a few non flying positions where you work with the infantry in a liaison role. Had a TACOPs guy in my last unit who worked with BAE concerning ASE equipment . He didn't like being out of the cockpit for so long. You'll be assigned to computer excercises (CTX) every now and then as well. During an FTX you might very well be assigned a liaison with the infantry.

 

A lot of guys take college courses during their time off. Almost every one of my friends, if I click on their FB, it will list Embry Riddle as their school. Some use GI Bill for flight training in their time off. Probably 75 % of the guys used AVOTEC at my last unit.

 

So, plenty of non flying stuff to do out there. Mostly in your non flying days you'll work in your additional duties or study.

 

Do anything that will improve your chances of promotion. Just heard from a friend last night that only 35 % were picked up for CW3 on the last board. He was passed over twice for promotion and is now being forced out. Got plenty of friends who were already passed over once and most likely not get picked up. These people aren't dirt bags either. It's just a way of the Army to reduce its numbers. Like my friend told me last night, the helicopter job market will soon be flooded from all the guys we pumped through Rucker the last ten years.

[DC8488]

Oh the Army will find things for you to do.

 

That's what concerns me. I have spent numerous hours mopping hangers and vaccuming sand out of the cracks on the flight line (in a freakin windy desert) for the AF.

 

Guess I will have to find something else to do, I burned most of my GI Bill on a Masters. I went through ERAU as well.

 

Thanks for the info Velocity.

[DC8488]

Deleted, double post.

[SBuzzkill]

It's not the street to seaters who are worrying. It's the guys who are going to come up just short of retirement if they don't make W3.

 

And don't underestimate the value of stocking a fridge and cleaning a toilet. At least in my unit that was the first test of your character and maturity and was a lot bigger deal than it sounded.

Edited February 11, 2013 by SBuzzkill

[Hotdogs]

I think HotDogs is the only non-Army pilot/wannabe in here. Poor guy.

Most Marines are used to being surrounded

[akscott60]

Well I clocked a little over 4 hours and shot day/night. Not all bad. Even hit my target some

[zVo]

I am graduating the UH-60M course at Rucker and my receiving unit is returning from Afghanistan in a few months. With aircraft going into reset and the huge reductions to deployed personnel over the next 12-18 months, it looks like flight hours for RL progression (and even a deployments) are going to be slim to none.

 

I really appreciate the perspective given in this thread. As a street-to-seater without a degree complete, I am definitely going to be using this time to stay academically sharp in the -10 and finish up a bachelors degree (ERAU) while the TA benefits are still around. It's about all I can do aside from finding any course possible to put on my OER.

 

Any recommendations as to what a new warrant can do to stay ahead in the changing environment?

[SBuzzkill]

When you get to your unit they will give you additional duties. Learn them and show them that you can handle them. Like I said earlier, that's going to be your first chance to prove yourself to your unit. Study when you get there, even though you wont be flying right away. I was in the same position with no aircraft to fly and a unit just back from deployment. I learned the new 95-1, the local AO, I studied studied studied and ended up being first for progression and getting through quickly. Just be quiet and be a sponge. Don't expect to fly right away but be prepared for it anyway.

[Velocity173]

Everything SBuzzkill said. When your unit gets back, flying will be the last thing on their minds. After about a month some of the IPs will start to go out with the PCs for LOAs again. Once they're warmed up they'll start taking the PIs out. Once they've got them knocked out they'll look at you. First impressions are everything. Your first flight will be a commander's eval / PFE. Obviously you'll be RL3 and they won't expect greatness. Even though you'll be rusty, the IP will be pleasantly surprised with base tasks done to standard and EPs & limits down cold. they'll be really impressed with a good understanding of the Bn SOP and local area knowledge. If you do well it will leave a lasting impression and your IPs will bend over backwards to help you. They can tell if you spent all your free time leading up to that flight not studying. I don't want to make it sound dog eat dog but people who stand out jump ahead of others in RL Progression. Standing out isnt the guy with the biggest mouth in the room either. "Quiet professionals." your actions speak louder than words Be diligent in your additional duties (even fridge) but make sure they don't interfere with study time.

 

Best thing to be is patient. Too often junior guys want to rush everything. They dont want to be sitting around studying and planning flights for others. They see PCs and IPs going off on the "big mission" and they want to be there. Give it some time and you'll get your chance.

[akscott60]

zVo, just be prepared to not fly for a year. Seriously. Do other stuff.

[SemperGumby]

I am graduating the UH-60M course at Rucker and my receiving unit is returning from Afghanistan in a few months. With aircraft going into reset and the huge reductions to deployed personnel over the next 12-18 months, it looks like flight hours for RL progression (and even a deployments) are going to be slim to none.

 

zVo, glad to see you make it through Mother Rucker. Sometimes, it feels like it was just yesterday that we were putting together the WOFT packet. I am just about to start the 64 course here at Rucker so I'll be here for at least another 6 months. I can't even think about the next duty station yet but with draw down, I don't think I'll be flying much after I get out of here.

 

I just hope I don't miss out on the deployments, like some of my buddies out here are going to. I wouldn't mind seeing things from the air this time instead of being misserable on the ground like last time.