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Posted

Haha haha. The article said Kiowas are expensive to run and maintain.

 

Credibility lost.

 

Seriously though, if this swap doesn't happen, the Kiowa guys are screwed.

  • Like 1
Posted

how so? I mean... maybe it'll keep Kiowas in operation longer.

Or they'll scrap them completely, and have no available aircraft to transition the out of work pilots into.

Posted

There are a whole lot of aviators that are now polishing up their resumes.

 

Congress and the Senate need to let the military restructure as they see fit, since they are the ones responsible for the sequestration that has caused a lot of this, and the fact they have let it continue without any effort to resolve it.

 

Removing a large percentage of the AD Army's air capabilities with nothing to replace it is beyond foolish, but if anything politicians are good at, it's being foolish.

Posted

Haha haha. The article said Kiowas are expensive to run and maintain.

 

Credibility lost.

 

Seriously though, if this swap doesn't happen, the Kiowa guys are screwed.

Kiowa guys are already screwed. Apache or not...

Posted

how so? I mean... maybe it'll keep Kiowas in operation longer.

With the approval already signed off on to divest the 58, continuing forward is a very easy way to reduce the military budget. In my opinion, the Apache/Blackhawk deal with the Guard is secondary and will not delay the death of the 58. The Army has been looking for a reason to kill off the 58 for over a decade. They just finally found someone to dig the grave.

 

The real loser in this is not the 58 pilot who will lose his or her career. It's the ground guy who may lose his life in a future conflict because of the loss of the 58.

  • Like 3
Posted

Just thought I'd point out that cutting 100 F-35s from the USAFs planned 1,700 would save enough money to buy nearly 700 of the latest Apaches.

 

Or 2,500 Kiowas.

The additional pilots required for all 3,200 of those helicopters could be trained with funds saved by cutting and additional ~100 (assuming the training of one pilot costs just above $3 million). The Air Force would be left with a "mere" 1,400 F-35s instead of 1,700.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a Pentagon budget expert.

  • Like 6
Posted

Just thought I'd point out that cutting 100 F-35s from the USAFs planned 1,700 would save enough money to buy nearly 700 of the latest Apaches.

 

Or 2,500 Kiowas.

But it's the most advanced most technological most awesomeness plane ever made! We must pay out the $1,000,000,000,000 lifetime contract for this godlike aircraft. It can do everything!

Posted

I stand corrected, the F-35 is now at 1.45 Trillion lifetime.

 

 

The U.S. government now projects that the total cost to develop, buy and operate the Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will be $1.45 trillion over the next 50-plus years, according to a Pentagon documen

  • Like 1
Posted

I wouldn't buy into hype or sensationalism about things that are politically motivated. I have a feeling many people are jumping onto that train because of the current budget climate.

 

Newsflash for helicopter pilots: The DoD is preparing for the next full spectrum conflict. Generally speaking helicopters aren't the first priority on the budget...or really the first thing thought about at all.

  • Like 1
Posted

I think helicopters are thought about a lot more then you think. The entire Iraq war changed because of IEDs..hell my entire AVIATION battalion (non flight personnel) convoyed into Iraq. The thought of that nowadays is crazy, flying troops around the battlefield has become a staple of troop movement and will continue regardless of the next conflict I feel. In big army I did 6+ hours of ring routes including Joe Schmo who was going on R&R, and I was glad I was doing it so that this guy didn't have to convoy to try and see his family and an IED take him out.

  • Like 2
Posted

I still fail to see the need for national guard to have apaches.

 

However, In light of recent events on the border, I could see why the national guard would want to have them.

 

Listen, the 58 being scrapped is the right thing. hell, even the 58 pilots complained about the airframe for years.

 

As with everything the Army does, it comes down to good idea, poor execution. The 58 should have been replaced long ago when we realized the airframe couldn't carry a proper weapons load out and had nil station time, especially in Afghanistan.

 

This current situation is yet another reminder of a administration who has failed to plan for the future. Now the Army will have to do with the Apaches and UAVs for now. Who knows, they may make the LUH the next light scout helicopter.

 

Hotdogs, you are right. The next "full spectrum war" will be more than likely using fixed wings but the unconventional SOF forces will still have a significant requirement for rotary. If you ask me, that's where the emphasis will be made, on special operations helicopters who will fly out of the spotlight and less in the media's attention.

  • Like 1
Posted

Any chance the Lakotas will become a weapons platform and be role specific like the Little Birds? In light of what I have read here it does make sense if it is possible of course, to my understanding, they are a pretty versatile helicopter, at least on paper.

Posted

I understand the need for the guard to have Apache's. I think they need to retain those skilled pilots who do not wish to do thier entire careers on active duty. The guard also has tanks too, and no one is screaming for them to give up the tanks for something more useful during a hurricane response.

Posted

I understand the need for the guard to have Apache's. I think they need to retain those skilled pilots who do not wish to do thier entire careers on active duty. The guard also has tanks too, and no one is screaming for them to give up the tanks for something more useful during a hurricane response.

Nailed it

Posted

I do not know much about the current situation with the Army trying to pull the Apache, but is there a middle ground? where maybe the Army gets some additional Apaches from the guard, but they still maintain the capability? or is that simply not a possibility?

Posted

Any chance the Lakotas will become a weapons platform and be role specific like the Little Birds? In light of what I have read here it does make sense if it is possible of course, to my understanding, they are a pretty versatile helicopter, at least on paper.

 

No. The AAS program was cancelled. Besides, the Lakota would be a terrible armed scout, try flying one in the desert sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Posted

With the approval already signed off on to divest the 58, continuing forward is a very easy way to reduce the military budget. In my opinion, the Apache/Blackhawk deal with the Guard is secondary and will not delay the death of the 58. The Army has been looking for a reason to kill off the 58 for over a decade. They just finally found someone to dig the grave.

 

The real loser in this is not the 58 pilot who will lose his or her career. It's the ground guy who may lose his life in a future conflict because of the loss of the 58.

 

The winner of this fight will be the side with the most political power. This has turned into a good old-fashioned political food fight.

Posted

 

No. The AAS program was cancelled. Besides, the Lakota would be a terrible armed scout, try flying one in the desert sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Because of the overheating, so I have heard. Just spit balling ideas, thanks for the clarification.

Posted

You can mount guns on it just google ec 145 with guns. As far as it operating in the desert, there's a fix for that. The Army just hasn't explored it.

Posted

 

No. The AAS program was cancelled. Besides, the Lakota would be a terrible armed scout, try flying one in the desert sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Gen Cody put out the requirements for a 58 replacement fully expecting the Army to order a fleet of AH-6 Little Birds. The AH-6 was the perfect fit for the requirements Gen Cody demanded because he tried to force the Army's hand by tailoring the requirements exactly to the Little Bird, but instead we got the abortion known as the ARH-70.

  • Like 1
Posted

They would have never accepted the 6, no hydraulics. It may have met Cody's requirements but not the Army's. The LUH can do the job it just needs to be modified.

Posted

You can mount guns on it just google ec 145 with guns. As far as it operating in the desert, there's a fix for that. The Army just hasn't explored it.

You can mount guns on a turd too but it's not a good scout. The Lakota is a good bird for IFR flight and DV transport but it can't hang in the field. There just aren't enough fixes. The AH-6 is the right way to go.

  • Like 2

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