Commissioned Army Officer to Aviation Warrant Officer

12Ato153A · January 30, 2017

5) You do NOT attend WOCS.

6) You will get a WOBC date. Yes, you are a WOBC by-pass, HOWEVER, you still must take an APFT on day 0 with your WOBC class, as well as attend the initial briefs, plus half a day of briefs on WOBC day 1.

Do you need to report to Rucker with any additional paperwork (i.e. DA 4187 completed a certain way) for the WOCS/WOBC bypass? I'm in the Guard and was informed that as soon as my packet has finished processing at State, a school slot will most likely come quickly. Just trying to get ahead of everything!

Drew · January 30, 2017

WOCS: you will receive an equivalent credit memo. For WOBC you just show them that you have done BOLC in your previous branch.

ajm872000 · February 4, 2017

This is my first post on here but I've been following the posts on vertical reference for about a year now and am glad to have found this forum. I'm currently an AD Captain in the SC branch. My initial commitment was completed May of 2015 and all my time now is going towards finishing my 3 years of mandated IRR time. I chose to stay and complete mine active to get the G/I bill.

My background, I commissioned out of USMA and I foolishly let everyone talk me out of branching AV out of practicality purposes. I missed one or two shots to VTIP. I was deployed for the first one and I was told by my BC that he would deny the request for my second VTIP opportunity. After being a Battalion S6 for 4 years and being in Command now about a year and a half I have hit the point where I am no longer having fun in the Army. Not sure when it happened, maybe one weekend call or one inventory/piece of lost property too many but every time I see a helicopter overhead, or fly in a helicopter I stop what I'm doing, my heart starts racing, and I usually have an uncontrollable grin from ear to ear. At any rate, the future of the SC is questionable with so many sub-branches popping up (17 series, FA53, FA26, FA27, FA24) and I don't want to be in a dying branch where all I have to look forward to is making PowerPoint slides and getting yelled at by senior officers. After my father passed away I realized that life is too short to not do exactly what you want to do and realizing that this may still be an opportunity for me is an extremely exciting prospect.

As I have nearly 81 months of AD time, I'm not sure if I passed the point of no return. My initial plan was to get the G/I bill and then get out and use it in conjunction with a degree program to achieve my ratings up to commercial and then build my time as a CFI. In any case I have my IT certifications and experience in the communications realm to get a GS job or contractor job and that's great for my plan C, however, I want to fly. Anyone know if it's too late for me? Also, does the transition from O3 to WO1 or CW2 tack on the "E" pay or is that only for enlisted? Ultimately the pay cut isn't as important as doing something I love everyday. I do love the Army, and if I can continue serving in another capacity that allows me to serve but also do something I enjoy, then that is the route I want to go.

Drew · February 5, 2017

How old are you? You would come in as a CW2 based on your time in as a commissioned officer. You will not be on an E status though. It will be the same W2 pay as everyone else. If it is what you want to do then do it! I definitely am grinning ear to ear every time I fly. It's amazing.

ajm872000 · February 5, 2017

I turned 29 in December. I'm currently deployed, saving every dime I can manage to save. I'm KD qualified and I've been to the advanced course.

METT-TC · February 6, 2017

No save pay, E or otherwise (unless you go back the other way from warrant and have the required 4 years). Quality of life does include more than $$, but understand that pay cut is severe ($20k or thereabouts...are CW2s underpaid or mid-senior captains overpaid With that, your quality of life will be better as a warrant as being a line officer not doing PowerPoint or eating up that staff time is infinitely more enjoyable. And becoming a SME vs generalist is rewarding. If you make it / stay to W-4, your retirement will not be that far behind an O-5s depending on the years stayed beyond 20. I know that isn't something that you most likely are looking at...but you will one day.

Make the choice and be at peace with it no matter (you've served and that is the most important part further down the line).

dovq2011 · February 7, 2017

This is my first post on here but I've been following the posts on vertical reference for about a year now and am glad to have found this forum. I'm currently an AD Captain in the SC branch. My initial commitment was completed May of 2015 and all my time now is going towards finishing my 3 years of mandated IRR time. I chose to stay and complete mine active to get the G/I bill.

My background, I commissioned out of USMA and I foolishly let everyone talk me out of branching AV out of practicality purposes. I missed one or two shots to VTIP. I was deployed for the first one and I was told by my BC that he would deny the request for my second VTIP opportunity. After being a Battalion S6 for 4 years and being in Command now about a year and a half I have hit the point where I am no longer having fun in the Army. Not sure when it happened, maybe one weekend call or one inventory/piece of lost property too many but every time I see a helicopter overhead, or fly in a helicopter I stop what I'm doing, my heart starts racing, and I usually have an uncontrollable grin from ear to ear. At any rate, the future of the SC is questionable with so many sub-branches popping up (17 series, FA53, FA26, FA27, FA24) and I don't want to be in a dying branch where all I have to look forward to is making PowerPoint slides and getting yelled at by senior officers. After my father passed away I realized that life is too short to not do exactly what you want to do and realizing that this may still be an opportunity for me is an extremely exciting prospect.

As I have nearly 81 months of AD time, I'm not sure if I passed the point of no return. My initial plan was to get the G/I bill and then get out and use it in conjunction with a degree program to achieve my ratings up to commercial and then build my time as a CFI. In any case I have my IT certifications and experience in the communications realm to get a GS job or contractor job and that's great for my plan C, however, I want to fly. Anyone know if it's too late for me? Also, does the transition from O3 to WO1 or CW2 tack on the "E" pay or is that only for enlisted? Ultimately the pay cut isn't as important as doing something I love everyday. I do love the Army, and if I can continue serving in another capacity that allows me to serve but also do something I enjoy, then that is the route I want to go.

Dude... I was in the same boat (except in the LG realm). From a professional point of view, do what you're going to be happy and content with. Joes know when they have a commander or a staff OIC who utterly hates their life/job, and that in turn rolls down on them, regardless of your personality type. With the March board coming up, this will be your last chance for this FY. I don't know when the next board will be in FY18 but it'll give you a year to save up some monies (reference: pay cut), get the physical done, and build a solid packet. Drew pretty much covered the other questions.

Tstroh10 · March 4, 2017

I know it was talked about a bit in this post but the release memorandum from branch is a real pain and its the last thing I need for my packet. Any advice? My branch manager has no clue what I'm even talking about. Any examples??

Drew · March 5, 2017

No doubt it's a pain... it will be from your branch and needs to be signed by your branch chief. PM me your email and I'll send you mine as an example.

oh58mech · March 10, 2017

This might sound crazy to all those wanted to go from CO to WO, but anyone have any experience/advice for going the other way?

An example I've seen: https://www.army.mil/article/75539

But I'm a firm believer (and witness) that "there's a waiver for everything" and where there's a will, there's a way.

This is more with an eye towards retirement and chasing the carrot. There were some instructors at Rucker who went SFC -> CW3 -> CPT. Not a bad stretch. CPT Lacy (Lacey?) if anyone had him, too many on to global to sort through.

As for the comment about not being a generalist/not being buried in PPTs procurement... results certainly vary by airframe, track, and unit.

METT-TC · March 10, 2017

As for the comment about not being a generalist/not being buried in PPTs procurement... results certainly vary by airframe, track, and unit.

Sounds like someone went TACOPS (possibly Safety, but generally not as dire)? I always felt sorry for my fellows that got pulled up to the Bn S3 shop.

As for the direct commission, no. I went CW3 to CPT in late 2010, but mine was different as I already had 9 years previous as an RLO. But obviously there is precedent as you posted. If no one helps you out/is familiar, suggest you do one of two things--hit up that captain in the article on pointers...and if he'd still do it (find him on global) or query HRC-Avn (generally the "special actions" officer on the branch webpage).

I will say O3E is good money when up in the 15-16 year area, but if CW4 is likely / possible, you'll make more in retirement than a MAJ if you are staying a little beyond 20 (O-4s only get annual COLA above 18, no TIS increase).

Lindsey · March 10, 2017

CPT Lacey was the coolest instructor at Rucker. Definitely an icon.

Drew · March 10, 2017

Don't have any experience from warrant to RLO if you wanted to stay aviation. But, I went through med BOLC with a guy who was an aviation W3 that went the PA route. So PA school as an O2 then fast track to O3.

oh58mech · March 11, 2017

O-4 is nearly $1k more than W-4 at 20. COLA doesn't follow you into retirement. Either way, it's better than I would have been as an E-7 (though likely would have finished as E-8, possibly 9).

I'm at 16 now, with 7 more to go (did a short stint in the USAR), so I'll be falling on the 22 or 24 TIS pay. First look for W3 is 2020. We'll see how life is at my next duty station in a year or two, but honestly, I may be willing to rebranch.

METT-TC · March 11, 2017

Thanks for the correction--I remembered it as equaling out around 24. Interference from the reduction of flight pay as a commissioned guy if I had stayed that long I'm assuming. When I say "COLA", I am talking about the yearly increase to your base pay--the across the service one, not a locality pay. Yes, wrong term, but you can see where O-4 stops receiving TIS increases at 18-only thing left is that 1 Jan annual adjustment courtesy of Congress.

Understand that if you do pursue this, say you get it at 18 years and start out as an O-3E, you are looking at about 9 years more service to retire as a maxed out (high 3 retirement) O-4. 6 years as a captain and 3 as as major. If you are enjoying the job, hell yeah. And that 2.5% for each year above 20 will increase that retirement nicely. On the other hand, you'll make almost as much (including that O-4s special pays/BAH/BAS, etc) as a retired W-3 with a 50-70k flight job (and including VA disability 50% or above, you will be higher--we never really consider this side of it, but even pretty healthy, it is a better possibility of getting than CW4 / MAJ promotion...). Sorry for that run-on...

Not trying to dissuade you, just keep your eyes open to both sides. And if you are enjoying it, hell yeah, why not. On the flip side, the older I got, the less willing I was to deal with some of the BS (everyone's cup fills up at a different time which is okay). Heaven knows I threw out DA PAM 600-3's career model out the window and did it pretty much on my terms. And without too many bumps or bruises to show for it.

edit--need more coffee (still early'ish in the PST)--public math between your stated warrant timeline and my scenario is only 3 years difference I believe. I don't know if the grass is greener, but there is the public math to consider.

Fly89 · March 17, 2017

All the post on this dissucssion have been really helpful, yet my question is what would happen if I was accepted and for some reason I didn't make it through flight school? Would I regain my commission, be offered to re-branch as a warrant, or be forced to leave active duty? Has anyone known someone that didn't make it through flight school after making the switch?

Fly89 · March 18, 2017

This discussion board has been really helpful with finding reliable information on transitioning to become a warrant, yet there is still one question I haven't seen. What would happen if I was selected for flight school, and for some reason I was unable to finish? Would the Army allow me to return as a commissioned officer in my previous branch, re-branch as a warrant, or require me to leave active duty? Does anyone know of someone that made the switch and was unable to successfully complete flight school? I'm defiantly not going apply to become a warrant if I'm not going to give it 100%, yet the reality is that not everyone makes it through flight school for different reasons. I'd like to know what would happen if I resign my commission and things don't work out the way I hoped they would. Becoming a pilot has been a dream of mind for many years, yet I don't want to risk the wellbeing of my family to chase my dream with out knowing what are my options if for some reason I don't make through flight school.

METT-TC · March 20, 2017

This discussion board has been really helpful with finding reliable information on transitioning to become a warrant, yet there is still one question I haven't seen. What would happen if I was selected for flight school, and for some reason I was unable to finish? Would the Army allow me to return as a commissioned officer in my previous branch, re-branch as a warrant, or require me to leave active duty? Does anyone know of someone that made the switch and was unable to successfully complete flight school? I'm defiantly not going apply to become a warrant if I'm not going to give it 100%, yet the reality is that not everyone makes it through flight school for different reasons. I'd like to know what would happen if I resign my commission and things don't work out the way I hoped they would. Becoming a pilot has been a dream of mind for many years, yet I don't want to risk the wellbeing of my family to chase my dream with out knowing what are my options if for some reason I don't make through flight school.

If you're otherwise able to serve (in your old branch or another in that grouping), you can expect the request to be looked on favorably. About the only thing that would do this to you is a medical issue--fit for Army standards other than Aviation--car wreck, etc. Other types of failing go into not fit to be an officer other than medical and they won't be an issue / can only be self induced.

So that stated, yes, can revert via 4187 and working with your current and former HRC branch peeps. They "should" be somewhat familiar (if it were to ever occur)--I did it right after HRC moved from Alexandria to Knox and there was a continuity drain as many GS punched out for retirement vs move to lovely Knox. Mine was painful--and it was all in the same branch (but the first since the relocation--I sent a bottle of single malt to the poor officer that had to/but did figure it out for me). But the techs and officers have had 6 years to relearn everything that didn't move with the flag.

Edited March 20, 2017 by METT-TC

dovq2011 · March 30, 2017

Update: We just had a brief today to talk about the way ahead for life at flight school (more or a less a general brief) but for those going CO to WO, you will no longer be a WOBC-A Bypass. Read: EVERYONE will do WOBC-A, as well as WOBC-B.

Tradewinds · March 30, 2017

Well that sounds like fun.

Tstroh10 · March 30, 2017

I wonder IF and when this would go into effect..

dovq2011 · March 30, 2017

I think it already is in effect. According to Mr. Meyers at B Co, he told me and another prior-CO guy that we were basically the last ones (there were some others who all arrived around the same time frame).