WO1 Reset Official

[Qwerty95]

Well, they’ve done it. Just got a brief today at Rucker that the SEC Army signed the TIG reset for W1’s last week (soon to be published officially). This affects all W1’s who get their wings after 1 OCT 21 (Minus O Grades of course). I won’t argue the specifics of why it happened, but I find that it a little shitty that O grades are not affected. My main gripe is the loss of pay aspect.  Yeah it’s a little loss of money over the years but that’s money I could have used for my future daughters college fund. I  am personally considering writing to my congressional representatives.  

[SBuzzkill]

*f*cks over aviators to cut cost at any opportunity*

We CaNt fIgUrE OuT wHy We HaVe a RetEntIon pRoblEm.

 

[Luckylife64]

Wait what? Where’s the official message?

[Qwerty95]

Official guidance is getting pushed out soon but it’s already been signed (according to a CCWO here)

[Luckylife64]

Maybe their goal is to rid the army of the warrant officer aviation community? Who else will be effected by this change? 
 

Tech warrants already promote faster but hey let’s TAC on another 1.5- 2 years on there. 

[eyrk]

Contact your local congress rep quick fast and in a hurry. 

[Luckylife64]

SO FAR: 
-credential assistance 4K to 1k for active duty gaining a PPL. 
-Flight pay reduced
-Changed from 6 year to 10 year service obligations. 
And now targeting any foreseeable future of promotions…..

It’s not “retaining the force” anymore it’s pinning the military members down and robbing them from advancements in personal and professional growth/goals. 
 

Anyone who has 8 years of service already will be taking a significant loss in pay to become a flight warrant. 
Compared to staying enlisted and becoming an E6+. 

[eyrk]

Also what briefs are all these people going to with the CCWO? Never had one here with him yet. Only hear about this stuff once every few months from a random W1

 

Edit: Asked some people in the upper echelons. It is signed. Boyyyy were all screwed

[Thedude]

1 hour ago, Luckylife64 said:

SO FAR: 
-credential assistance 4K to 1k for active duty gaining a PPL. 
-Flight pay reduced
-Changed from 6 year to 10 year service obligations. 
And now targeting any foreseeable future of promotions…..

It’s not “retaining the force” anymore it’s pinning the military members down and robbing them from advancements in personal and professional growth/goals. 
 

Anyone who has 8 years of service already will be taking a significant loss in pay to become a flight warrant. 
Compared to staying enlisted and becoming an E6+. 

Flight pay was increased overall with a very slight reduction in your junior years.

You will not make more money as an E6 than as a W1 at 8 years, look at the pay charts. Even with the extended time as a W1 you will always have a higher base pay than what you would've had as an enlisted soldier. 

 

Be glad you're not going through flight school as a WOC Candidate and getting paid as an E5 the whole time. Used to be you'd get your wings and W1 on the same day. 

[nil5038]

Youre lucky its not worse…..classic blanket statement argument that can literally never, not be said no matter how much worse it gets.

 

When the ten year ADSO was briefed to my class it was pitched that it was an attempt to make us equal with other branch’s flight programs. Admittedly im not effected by either the longer adso or rank reset but claiming thats the goal while paying your pilots so much less for so much cheaper training ends that argument right there. Added to which there is only one other branch with this long of an adso, no other branches that delay promotions….. also flight pay wasnt increased. While yea the numbers went up, an inflation rate vs flight pay increase will show it went down overall. 

i cannot comprehend people being upset over other people being upset about losing money, especially when there is no real tactical cause for this delay of promotion. Is it the end of the world? No but i think its more than fair to be upset that youre in a way basically getting an unexpected pay decrease

[nil5038]

If someone can give me a TACTICAL PURPOSE to the rank reset ill shut right up sacrifice for the greater good is the military’s jam but the way it looks to me all things considered (increased adso, decrease WOJG flight pay, longer time as a WOJG) is this is a strong arm way to force rentention.

[Thedude]

The Army will come up with all kinds of fancy sounding justifications but it all boils down to saving some money. They don't care about us at all which is evident by the way they've been treating pilots for the last 20+ years. That said, I'm still getting paid more for doing way less work and dealing with way less bullshit than when I was a NCO. Just wait until you guys are tracked and actually working hard and get to watch the mouth breathing oxygen thief retard get promoted to W3 like everyone else and get the same paycheck as you while contributing nothing other than keeping CG in limits. 

[GM1]

Write your congressman ladies and gents. 

[kow10120]

Figured it was coming, but was hoping it wouldn’t.

 New Army directive will reset aviator warrant officer date of rank

Both the House and Senate Armed Services Committees have subcommittees for personnel that cover these types of issues. Maybe they would be good to reach out to.

[Luckylife64]

On 9/20/2021 at 10:19 PM, Thedude said:

Flight pay was increased overall with a very slight reduction in your junior years.

You will not make more money as an E6 than as a W1 at 8 years, look at the pay charts. Even with the extended time as a W1 you will always have a higher base pay than what you would've had as an enlisted soldier. 

 

Be glad you're not going through flight school as a WOC Candidate and getting paid as an E5 the whole time. Used to be you'd get your wings and W1 on the same day. 

Big assumption here is that it doesn’t effect Thedude’s wallet so why are we complaining about it. 
There was a decrease in flight pay increase in the seniors. Fact. 

Flight school has become much longer than what you probably remember because of the COVID setbacks and large gaps in between courses because of wait time between classes and mandatory quarantines. Like the 3-4 month average going from WOCS to WOBC. 
That must be their fault as a student though right…. 

I could see this being more useful for a “high school to flight school student” who doesn’t have leadership experience within the ranks of being in the military. Those of us that have experience as NCO’s with extra billets know how to manage the workload. 

So from the time you make it out of flight school. 
1.5 years. Adding 2 years for the reset….3.5 as a WO1….. waiting 

then think about the distances gap between CW2-CW3 compared to our Tech warrants lol. +6 if your lucky. 
8.5 years…. retention tome in the CW3 just to be eligible to retire by 20. 

BTW who exactly does this target? Just the warrants not the regular officer promotions. 

 

[SLEDGE HAMMER]

Can only laugh at this point. 

[eyrk]

19 minutes ago, SLEDGE HAMMER said:

Can only laugh at this point. 

And write your member of Congress. Just a reminder our beloved new PT test was suspended by congress so let your people know. 

[Thedude]

26 minutes ago, Luckylife64 said:

Big assumption here is that it doesn’t effect Thedude’s wallet so why are we complaining about it. 
There was a decrease in flight pay increase in the seniors. Fact. 

Flight school has become much longer than what you probably remember because of the COVID setbacks and large gaps in between courses because of wait time between classes and mandatory quarantines. Like the 3-4 month average going from WOCS to WOBC. 
That must be their fault as a student though right…. 

I could see this being more useful for a “high school to flight school student” who doesn’t have leadership experience within the ranks of being in the military. Those of us that have experience as NCO’s with extra billets know how to manage the workload. 

So from the time you make it out of flight school. 
1.5 years. Adding 2 years for the reset….3.5 as a WO1….. waiting

 

When I went through flight school there were long bubbles in training. I spent 23 months at Rucker with no class recycles or anything, just weeks to months of delays between every class along the way. I pinned W2 about two months after getting to my first unit. 

There is some justification to the Army's reasoning even though it sucks to lose the money. Even though a lot of us were NCOs we know next to nothing about how to do our jobs leaving flight school. A CW2 is supposedly a subject matter expert and the tech warrants have a huge advantage over us in that aspect since they are continuing in mostly the same career fields they previously served as NCOs in. An aviator CW2 a few months out of flight school has none of that expertise and performs the job at the level of a brand new W1. 

I'm not saying it doesn't suck or that I wouldn't be butthurt if it affected me. 

[nil5038]

Yeaaaaa I don’t buy that “cw2 is supposed to be an expert” stuff. A non tracked non PC CW2 is a liability because the rank has high expectations, but a 1LT fresh out of flight school isn’t? And if anyone tries explaining to me that 2 short years is what it takes for you to become a subject matter expert as a pilot…I must just be an idiot then because this job must not be hard at all. Again other branches seem to pull off the small gap between winging and promotion just fine. Any fighter pilot you’ve ever seen was close to o-3 by the time they got to their unit. Not to mention if O grades aren’t effected by this and neither are reserve and guard warrants…….if you don’t see where I’m going, those 3 groups make up maybe half of our flight community. So only half our aviators need to be seasoned before receiving a promotion?
 

and let’s take this further then. Special forces Q course is also pretty long. The enlisted guys come in off the streets and 1.5 years later they are SGTs without any non Tradoc experience. Should those guys get similar treatment?

[AriX17]

10 hours ago, nil5038 said:

but a 1LT fresh out of flight school isn’t?

Your 100% right - in this case TIG for 2LT's should be increased to.

[Thedude]

A LT fresh out of flight school is just ignored when it comes to just about anything other than paperwork. Pretty much stays that way for their career even as company/troop commanders. Their primary job is administrative not being a pilot.

The directive needs clarification. At one point it says it applies to active, guard and reserve but immediately beneath that it only mentions active getting screwed. 

[Lumin]

On 9/20/2021 at 12:30 PM, Qwerty95 said:

Official guidance is getting pushed out soon but it’s already been signed (according to a CCWO here)

This is actually nuts. So instead of being 5 months junior (I attend WOCS in January) to someone who graduates WOCS this month (September) I would be behind them by several years. Does anyone know if this change will effect the time between grade requirements for the following grades (e.g. CW2 to CW3...)? 

[Lumin]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:28 PM, Luckylife64 said:

So from the time you make it out of flight school. 
1.5 years. Adding 2 years for the reset….3.5 as a WO1….. waiting 

then think about the distances gap between CW2-CW3 compared to our Tech warrants lol. +6 if your lucky. 
8.5 years…. retention tome in the CW3 just to be eligible to retire by 20. 

BTW who exactly does this target? Just the warrants not the regular officer promotions. 

 

I am curious to find out if this will impact the time between grades for 2-3, 3-4, & 4-5. If not it is going to severely impact careers. For example, if a peer of mine graduates WOCS this month in September. With me attending WOCS in January, I will now be nearly 4 years behind someone I would have been only 5 months behind (by TIG prior to this change) - This is insane to me - the pay difference in those two years alone is ~9k assuming you don't cross TIS changes which you would. This doesn't include competing towards future promotions and those pay differences.  

[Thedude]

3 hours ago, Lumin said:

I am curious to find out if this will impact the time between grades for 2-3, 3-4, & 4-5. If not it is going to severely impact careers. For example, if a peer of mine graduates WOCS this month in September. With me attending WOCS in January, I will now be nearly 4 years behind someone I would have been only 5 months behind (by TIG prior to this change) - This is insane to me - the pay difference in those two years alone is ~9k assuming you don't cross TIS changes which you would. This doesn't include competing towards future promotions and those pay differences.  

It isn't supposed to change the timeline of any other promotions, you will still get your first board look at five years and pin at six for each subsequent rank. You are correct in saying that you will be behind in promotion and pay compared to a guy graduating flight school in the next few days as flight school graduation is what matters, not WOCS. That said, other than pay it really won't have an effect on promotions or assignments. In two days every flight school student still at Rucker will be realigned on the same delayed promotion path and those are the people you will be competing with throughout your career. You'll also find that you will have W2s filling W3/W4 squadron/battalion slots with W3s/W4s in troop/company slots usually filled by a W2. No one really cares as long as you can do that job properly. 

[Lumin]

17 hours ago, Thedude said:

It isn't supposed to change the timeline of any other promotions, you will still get your first board look at five years and pin at six for each subsequent rank. You are correct in saying that you will be behind in promotion and pay compared to a guy graduating flight school in the next few days as flight school graduation is what matters, not WOCS. That said, other than pay it really won't have an effect on promotions or assignments. In two days every flight school student still at Rucker will be realigned on the same delayed promotion path and those are the people you will be competing with throughout your career. You'll also find that you will have W2s filling W3/W4 squadron/battalion slots with W3s/W4s in troop/company slots usually filled by a W2. No one really cares as long as you can do that job properly. 

Ah you're right I didn't catch the part where if you didn't have your wings yet you were getting reset too. Definitely not the best decision for the Army. This coupled with the 10 year ADSO is going to deter a lot of qualified people IMO. It wasn't really about the billets, more so the career progression and pay differences over the course of a career will add up to a lot. I would think that with a large number of Warrant Aviators having their undergraduates already, that this will turn a lot of people to the unrestricted side of the house for the sake of career progression.