JCM5 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Private low time pilot with passenger on board. Totally avoidable. Fly safe people. http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/faa-pilot-passenger-injured-helicopter-crash-near-/nbRKK/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 I don't quite get it. One helicopter is forced down do to heavy fog, then another one nearly misses finding it due to heavy fog? Why so much interest in flying in the fog? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM5 Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 I don't quite get it. One helicopter is forced down do to heavy fog, then another one nearly misses finding it due to heavy fog? Why so much interest in flying in the fog? No no...those were ground crews not another helicopter. Which gives you an even better idea of how bad the fog was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 No no...those were ground crews not another helicopter. Which gives you an even better idea of how bad the fog was. Ah! ok then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiecop Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 An "in flight upset"? this is why non aviation types should not write about aviation incidents. Sounds like a stomach bug... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM5 Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 An "in flight upset"? this is why non aviation types should not write about aviation incidents. Sounds like a stomach bug... They also reported it as an R22. Journalism at its best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 According to the article there are IFR Certified R44s running around. Cool..... Glad everyone walked away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 According to the article there are IFR Certified R44s running around. Apperently some R44 owners think so too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM5 Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Apperently some R44 owners think so too! He had an altimeter and an attitude indicator. And GPS. What else do you need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 He had an altimeter and an attitude indicator. And GPS. What else do you need? A brain? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Another reason why I don't think schools should push an IFR rating onto their students when the aircraft they are getting their rating in aren't IFR certified...very few helicopters are IFR certified and even less are insured to fly IFR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superstallion6113 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) I'd say training to fly in IFR/IMC in an IFR trainer in VMC, and actually flying an IFR trainer into IMC are two completely different things, and IMO probably had little to nothing to do with the accident. Did the pilot even hold an instrument rating? I would venture to say a lack of sound ADM caused the accident, a good training topic that is covered in instrument ground school. There had to have been warning signs of the weather, and the possibility of inadvertent IMC prior to take off. What are we to train in if not an IFR trainer like the R44? A Bell 412 or EC135 for a few grand per hour? I would say my instrument training has made me a more precise pilot, and God forbid it ever happen to me, would allow me to safely get out of IIMC. Edited October 18, 2013 by superstallion6113 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM5 Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Another reason why I don't think schools should push an IFR rating onto their students when the aircraft they are getting their rating in aren't IFR certified...very few helicopters are IFR certified and even less are insured to fly IFR. I don't think that should be considered a reason not to get your instrument rating. Whether or not you actually use it in a certified IFR ship in actual IMC (most don't), there is a lot of valuable knowledge gained from doing it - including a better understanding of why you should never allow yourself to get into inadvertant IMC. This is an all too familar a-typical situation of a low time, low experience pilot putting himself into a completely avoidable situation after having made a series of bad decisions. He and his innocent passenger are lucky to be alive. For the record, the pilot in question is a low time private pilot. No instrument rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroscout Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 He had an altimeter and an attitude indicator. And GPS. What else do you need?I could do it with a ball of yarn, and a compass watch. Was it dark ? Maybe a flashlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) sh*t lol nevermind. Edited October 19, 2013 by SBuzzkill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBuzzkill Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) More to the story... Gotcha. Edited October 19, 2013 by SBuzzkill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I'd say training to fly in IFR/IMC in an IFR trainer in VMC, and actually flying an IFR trainer into IMC are two completely different things, and IMO probably had little to nothing to do with the accident. Did the pilot even hold an instrument rating? I would venture to say a lack of sound ADM caused the accident, a good training topic that is covered in instrument ground school. There had to have been warning signs of the weather, and the possibility of inadvertent IMC prior to take off. What are we to train in if not an IFR trainer like the R44? A Bell 412 or EC135 for a few grand per hour? I would say my instrument training has made me a more precise pilot, and God forbid it ever happen to me, would allow me to safely get out of IIMC. Seems like more often than not when I hear of accidents like this the pilot is instrument rated! So I'm going with the "lack of sound ADM" here as well! Not sure how we fix the problem though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Another reason why I don't think schools should push an IFR rating onto their students when the aircraft they are getting their rating in aren't IFR certified...very few helicopters are IFR certified and even less are insured to fly IFR. Schools push it to make money! Remember, flight training is a business! Whether or not we pilots benefit from the training depends on our job and keeping the skills current,...and our ADM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotornut67 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 At least they are still alive... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dankaten Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Schools push it to make money! Remember, flight training is a business! Whether or not we pilots benefit from the training depends on our job and keeping the skills current,...and our ADM!I have been instrument rated since the early 80's. I have actually even flown a whole hour in instrument conditions. Being instrument rated can do two things for you. One it cuts down on the insurance rate since you are more apt to survive inadvertant IMC. Two is it makes you a much better pilot. You also have a better feel for the aircraft after getting an instrument rating. Yes schools make money training you for an instrument rating but that rating may save your life one day. This was more about decision making and that is one thing a school can't teach you. Edited October 19, 2013 by dankaten 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d10 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Schools push it to make money! Remember, flight training is a business! Whether or not we pilots benefit from the training depends on our job and keeping the skills current,...and our ADM! Flight schools can push a lot of unnecessary training to get extra money out of you, but that doesn't include an instrument rating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) I don't feel like my 40 hours under the hood did much for me at all! Sure I got real good at working two radios, and sticking needles onto numbers, but as I haven't flown under the hood since, my attitude/instrument skills have just gone to sh*t! Makes you a better pilot? Sure, if you keep doing it every week! As for ADM it taught me how to fly through the clouds, not when to avoid them,...my VFR training did that! With the IR I learned a skill, and then I never used it again. It reminds me of when I learned how to drive, in a stick shift,...then I bought an automatic! Edited October 19, 2013 by pilot#476398 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1128 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 What you need to keep in mind flight schools are in a bushiness to prepare their students for the current job market. When I got my commercial a few years ago, schools were not pushing the instrument rating that much as most employers were not requiring an instrument rating. About that time companies like Chevron and Shell started to require instrument rate pilots and instrument equipped helicopters on ALL their contracts. Even their utility contracts. Now a large portion of the helicopter employers require the instrument rating for all their pilots. So to make their students competitive schools really have no choice but to offer the rating. Besides the rating does make you a smoother pilot and prepares you for possible IIMC events. If you schedule the rating properly, in other words, do the rating while building your time for your commercial certificate, you really doesn't cost that much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d10 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Sure I got real good at working two radios, and sticking needles onto numbers, but as I haven't flown under the hood since, my attitude/instrument skills have just gone to sh*t! What have you been doing since then? I know in some jobs you truly won't have any opportunities to practice but a lot of pilots only have themselves to blame if their instrument skills get rusty. You can practice a lot of instrument stuff on nearly any cross country flight. You might not be able to use a hood, but that shouldn't stop you from talking to ATC, flying a steady altitude by keeping a scan of your instruments going, tuning up navaids or programming your GPS and finishing your flight with an instrument approach. You might not get practice in everything you need for a good, preplanned IFR flight, but all of the skills you'll need to survive IIMC can be practiced on a lot of flights not intended for IFR training. Either way you're still much more likely to survive an IIMC scenario with an instrument rating than without, no matter how rusty your skills are. And strictly from an employment perspective, you're not going to find very many jobs that will hire you without it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) What have you been doing since then? I know in some jobs you truly won't have any opportunities to practice but a lot of pilots only have themselves to blame if their instrument skills get rusty. You can practice a lot of instrument stuff on nearly any cross country flight. You might not be able to use a hood, but that shouldn't stop you from talking to ATC, flying a steady altitude by keeping a scan of your instruments going, tuning up navaids or programming your GPS and finishing your flight with an instrument approach. You might not get practice in everything you need for a good, preplanned IFR flight, but all of the skills you'll need to survive IIMC can be practiced on a lot of flights not intended for IFR training. Either way you're still much more likely to survive an IIMC scenario with an instrument rating than without, no matter how rusty your skills are. And strictly from an employment perspective, you're not going to find very many jobs that will hire you without it. All I've done is tours, ferries, and photos,...you know, typical low time Robbie stuff. I've had this argument about the IR before, so I know I stand on the minority side of it, but I still think my money would have been better spent on something like the Advanced EP course at Western, or even a long line intro! I could care less if I ever fly under a hood again! As for IIMC survival? Well, as long as I stick to the go/no-go decision making skills I learned during my VFR training, I won't have to deal with it! Edited October 19, 2013 by pilot#476398 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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