Selection today

dirtyfoot · May 16, 2015

Yeah I'm pretty sure the tossers doing full on karaoke at the wine bar (at the wine bar!) were west pointers. I know they were LTs. Way to ruin the ambiance assholes.

Awesome use of the word "Tossers" Lindsey. More Americans need to use it.

It only gets worse. I've had a couple of good LTs in my 11yrs, but they were the exception.
My initial counseling this year: 23 yr old LT sitting across from me fresh out of flight school. Me, 29, 11yrs of service, tracked, undergrad complete, grad work in progress, and zero issues at work. It's was painful trying to play the game while this LT tries to give advice and "mentor" me on my career and education path.

There has to be a better way. What a joke.

apacheguy · May 16, 2015

............I'd love to see the Army start pushing for more commissions for NCOs/WO's for outstanding demonstrated leadership potential.

There's nothing holding our NCOs/WOs back from pursuing a commission any day they like.

Or maybe you need someone to hold your hand while you attempt to demonstrate what 'real leadership' looks like?

dirtyfoot · May 16, 2015

There's nothing holding our NCOs/WOs back from pursuing a commission any day they like.

Or maybe you need someone to hold your hand while you attempt to demonstrate what 'real leadership' looks like?

Well it might look something like not engaging in ad hominem when someone expresses an opinion on the internet.

WaterRooster · May 16, 2015

Well it might look something like not engaging in ad hominem when someone expresses an opinion on the internet.

Seems as though he may be a LT AND an Apache pilot. They are never wrong haha

Yamer · May 17, 2015

Hey I partly resemble that remark...

akscott60 · May 17, 2015

Keep this thread on topic. Bashing RLOs on the f*cking internet is childish and improper.

KING · May 17, 2015

The keyboard octagon is on Facebook. Lets not dilute this forum. Keep it professional for F*CK SAKE!

Joe_P148 · May 17, 2015

There's nothing holding our NCOs/WOs back from pursuing a commission any day they like.

Or maybe you need someone to hold your hand while you attempt to demonstrate what 'real leadership' looks like?

Actually there is a milper message holding warrants back.

akscott60 · May 17, 2015

That is true. You cannot go to OCS as a WO now.

stearmann4 · May 17, 2015

Believe it or not, for as many LTs and RLOs as we think are inept and immature leaders, there's just as many (or more per capita) WOs, who while maybe competent aviators, are horrible leaders and managers, and a good number or who are just lazy dirt bags. If all else fails, at least the RLOs have text books and doctrine to fall back on if they lack any real leadership talent, WOs get very little, and it's disguised as sock rolling and 3 x 5 card trimming.

Its true, most RLOs spent their formative years in higher education, while most WOs were either enlisted, or dealing with life as civilians at that age. Bottom line, we as a Corps aren't helping the relationship, because you WILL work for these guys and gals we're bashing. Believe it or not, most will grow to be good leaders and Battalion Commanders. If they hate WOs when they get to that level, we only have ourselves to blame by perpetuating the divide.

Everyone seems to believe in the hype that WOs are the "tactical and technical experts", and that's why the LTs are sub par regardless of what they wear on their collar. In reality, to be an expert, you have to have time and experience to develop that skill set. Senior W3s W4s and 5s are generally the ones that can be referred to as a reliable reference and spew tips that will save your life.

The only difference between a LT and WO1/CW2 in flight school at this point is...next to nothing except what your life experiences bring to the table.

My advice is don't jump on the "dumb RLO" band wagon just because it's convenient and what everyone else is doing. And certainly make sure you're squared away in every aspect before you start critiquing another aviator.

That LT is your superior, he/she earned it, academically at least, so save the eye rolling. For what it's worth, I've known several WOs who later went on to become RLOs, and most were dismal failures as leaders.

Give them the respect they've earned, and it will pay dividends in both your professions in the future.

Mike-

viz · May 17, 2015

Lead, Follow, or get out of my way! Warrants will never be platoon leaders, they will never be executive officers, they will never be company commanders. Warrants are advisors to commanders and decision-makers. That is what you signed up for. You could have gone through OCS or ROTC, but you didn't. All you can do is be an asset to your unit and (as corney as it is) "be all you can be."

AW1985 · May 17, 2015

Mike/AKScott60,

I agree on every point made (as I usually do with both of you). I wasn’t bashing RLOs, and do agree, my time is definitely spent better elsewhere. My point being that it seems silly to get advice or mentorship from an RLO straight out of flight school with significantly less education and life experience than myself. Now, I realize you can learn something from everyone, but, I would rather be mentored my a mature CPT, MAJ, or LTC than play a game of “Let’s knock out your initial counseling because its required.”

I have had some amazing Commanders throughout my time in the military, and would have followed them anywhere. My problem lies with a system of RLOs (young LTs) that have yet to learn the difference between Leadership and Management. The LTs that realize that an initial counseling is management (required by regulation) and not a time to act like they have some type of advice or guidance to give me are the ones I tend to respect more. Leadership inspires me to accomplish something, and without being told, where Management is just checking the block.

As you said though, the system has to be working in essence, because I have rarely worked for a bad Company or Battalion Commander (and all these guys had to be LTs at one point!).

-AW

apacheguy · May 18, 2015

Well it might look something like not engaging in ad hominem when someone expresses an opinion on the internet.

Feel free to express your opinions at your unit and see how fast you end up not being on the flight schedule. Your opinions sound suspiciously like trolling.

And yes, a warrant can get a commission if they meet the requirements. Of course they'd have to ETS and work through ROTC if a direct route doesn't exist. Fortunately for us all, HRC changes the rules constantly to create job security for themselves so things will inevitably come back around.

Cantankerously · May 18, 2015

no selection this week.

akscott60 · May 18, 2015

Ok, for some reason I thought they were weekly.

WaterRooster · May 18, 2015

I think you all need a sense of humor

Cantankerously · May 18, 2015

Ok, for some reason I thought they were weekly.

Every other week currently. I don't know if that will change. The pipeline is slowing way, way down.

Cantankerously · May 18, 2015

I think you all need a sense of humor

I have a great sense of humor. I'm just not going to make fun of LTs on the internets. I was just trying to get this post back to the topic at hand.

Joe_P148 · May 18, 2015

I have a great sense of humor. I'm just not going to make fun of LTs on the internets. I was just trying to get this post back to the topic at hand.

That's where we draw the line? Really?

Truth is LTs are a product of their environment. If your making fun of lts you only have yourself and your leadership to blame.

Cantankerously · May 18, 2015

That's where we draw the line? Really?

Truth is LTs are a product of their environment. If your making fun of lts you only have yourself and your leadership to blame.

Ok maybe I miss spoke or...typed. I was just trying to get the thread back on track.

mdeneso · May 18, 2015

Lead, Follow, or get out of my way! Warrants will never be platoon leaders, they will never be executive officers, they will never be company commanders. Warrants are advisors to commanders and decision-makers. That is what you signed up for. You could have gone through OCS or ROTC, but you didn't. All you can do is be an asset to your unit and (as corney as it is) "be all you can be."

That is not really true at all. I have had several platoon leaders who were WOs, they were outstanding leaders and I believe a large part of that is because of their experience as NCOs. And the other statement that WOs will never be Company Commanders is also false. It is not in their career path but does not mean that it will not happen (I have seen it twice at least). Not to derail this thread further but just wanted to clear that up a little bit.

dirtyfoot · May 24, 2015

Feel free to express your opinions at your unit and see how fast you end up not being on the flight schedule. Your opinions sound suspiciously like trolling.

And yes, a warrant can get a commission if they meet the requirements. Of course they'd have to ETS and work through ROTC if a direct route doesn't exist. Fortunately for us all, HRC changes the rules constantly to create job security for themselves so things will inevitably come back around.

You're right, I was way too impassioned in my original post. I have many friends who are fantastic RLO's and have nothing against Commissioned Officers. The point I should have stressed was that I feel that if more programs were put in place to recognize talent and potential at the initial entry through company levels, I believe that we as an Army would benefit, especially after 14 years of developing combat leaders. Just my opinion.

apacheguy · May 24, 2015

You're right, I was way too impassioned in my original post. I have many friends who are fantastic RLO's and have nothing against Commissioned Officers. The point I should have stressed was that I feel that if more programs were put in place to recognize talent and potential at the initial entry through company levels, I believe that we as an Army would benefit, especially after 14 years of developing combat leaders. Just my opinion.

You mean something like this?

Slots for soldiers go unfilled at West Point

http://archive.armytimes.com/article/20101007/NEWS/10070319/Slots-soldiers-go-unfilled-West-Point

"West Point has launched an aggressive, grass-roots recruiting campaign to attract soldiers.

The U.S. Military Academy hasn't filled all its congressionally reserved slots for soldiers "in decades," said Maj. Brian Easley, the soldier admissions officer at the academy. For the most recent class, graduating in 2014, West Point admitted 69 enlisted soldiers — 40 percent of the 170 slots authorized by Congress."